00:00:00 > ANDREW MURRAY: Welcome to this month’s
00:02:00 > Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name is Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: My name is Sarah Johannessen Murray. ANDREW MURRAY: For those of you who perhaps have never listened to our shows, which run every third Friday of the month from 7 till 8 PM, we’re both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. We run a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and recommend herbal medicines and dietary advice. So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. And from 7:30 until the end of the show at 8 o’ clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s subject, which is a continuation of a previous topic on nitric oxide and its current trend – or rather, the current trends in nitric oxide that have come around in the last year or two, both in the sports industry, specifically for muscle building, for male performance enhancement – for want of a better phrase – and also by the medical community. But
00:03:02 > there’s a lot of very recent research from 2013 to present 2015 research, showing that nitric oxide is actually a very negative product, even though we do produce it naturally. Has some very wide ranging damaging effects. And Dr. Peat’s research on nitric oxide and his newsletter that I think he’s going to be producing next month will detail – will share in a lot of detail, rather a lot of the rwill share in a lot of detail, rather, esearch that’s supporting what we’re going to talk about tonight. So nitric oxide has many implication for many different conditions from rheumatoid arthritis to diabetes, generalized inflammation, and old age. But there will be some specifics that we’ll bring out in the show. And so, for those people that are listening tonight, if you have any of the conditions that are associated with nitric oxide’s increase in the body, then this will be an interesting show for you. And we’d love you to call in to share your experiences.
00:04:04 > So, Dr. Peat, are you with us? RAY PEAT: Yes.ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Well, thanks so much for your time again. For those people who perhaps have never heard the show or who perhaps may ANDREW MURRAY: Ray,not have heard of you, would you just describe your academic and professional and then we’ll get going on the subject. RAY PEAT: I did master's degree humanities at just University of Oregon and then went back years later in biology for a PhD, and intended to study brain biology, but quickly shifted to reproductive aging physiology. So I concentrated on the biochemistry of the steroid hormones in relation to aging, largely. ANDREW MURRAY: OK. so I guess I’ll just open up the show by demonstrating some of the things that if people would search online, and be, for want of a better word, victim of bad advertising on
00:05:06 > what they would find out about nitric oxide. Unfortunately the internet is rife with lots of untruth and misconceptions as well as very genuine and good research to counter some of the accusations. But nitric oxide, as what I've seen, is touted mainly for helping the immune system. They mention it to be used to regulate blood pressure, to improve sleep. And then there is the things that it's mainly advertised for, which is for endurance and strength, and for body building and sexual performance-enhancing, and also for helping gastric motility. So Dr. Peat, given that we produce nitric oxide naturally doesn't mean to say it's always a good thing. Like adrenaline, too much of that is a bad thing. But given that we produce it naturally, what useful effect does it have, and why does it have so many
00:06:08 > negative effects? Why should ANDREW MURRAY: it be avoided ? SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And also why did they tell nitric oxide to be used for all those conditions, when it isn't true? Why were they twisting the truth? RAY PEAT: My dissertation in 1972 focused on estrogen, but I saw that the effects of estrogen where indistinguishable from effects of x-rays and aging and oxygen deprivation. And how that works is, that it changes the oxidative enzyme function (cytochrome c oxidase). And it was known that smog produces nitric oxide. It wasn't known that it occurred naturally in the body until the late 80s. But the effects of nitric oxide in smog were known
00:07:10 > to inhibit or damage that same respiratory enzyme. And at the time I was studying estrogen, it was known that carbon monoxide and cyanide also block the effect of oxygen in the cell. And so, no-one really thought about what nitric oxide was doing to the cell, except when they were exposed to a lot of smog. As soon as it was discovered that it is produced in the body, a series of publications over the next six or seven years, up until the late 90s, identified the harm that it did in the various tissues. For example, several papers clearly showed how it... ..inflammation or stress increasing nitric oxide, damages the insulin-producing
00:08:12 > cells in the pancreas. So, it's a major cause of diabetes, regardless of the particular person's history leading to diabetes. Not only damaging the cells in the pancreas, but they were seeing similar damage to every tissue they looked at, which seemed logical since it was a free radical, analogous to cyanide and carbon monoxide in its function in the cell. But then someone noticed that nitric oxide causes vasodilation during arousal and erection. And Viagra came on the scene with tremendous amount of funding RAY PEAT: for research. ANDREW MURRAY: This is about 15 ANDREW MURRAY: years ago now. RAY PEAT: Yeah, 1997 I think it was. And suddenly all of the bad stuff was forgotten,
00:09:14 > and everyone wanted to find out the wonder curative effects of the drug that could improve virility. And very soon after it came out, I started hearing from people who were suffering things such as diabetes from taking the virility pill. And that got me interested very early after the Viagra came on the market. But it was fitting right into the things that I was already interested ANDREW MURRAY: There is quite a positive association, isn't it, between cardiac arrest and Viagra's use. I think it killed quite a few people at this point in time. RAY PEAT: Well, it's probably killing more people than
00:10:16 > are being identified, because nitric oxide is produced in any stressed cell or tissue. and it decreases the function of the tissue by blocking the energy production. So it creates a vicious circle, the same way too much estrogen (or stress of any sort) can start a cycle of energy loss, increased production of the stress mediators, including nitric oxide, exciting the tissue, blocking the energy of the tissue, and leading the cell RAY PEAT: to die. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So amongst all the things taunting that nitric oxide are good for, is there any thread of truth to these statements? RAY PEAT: Of the things you mentioned, it actually does one of those things, which is to
00:11:18 > make muscles grow. But that's one of the things that Szent-Györgyi and Otto Warburg understood 50 years ago. ANDREW MURRAY: Is that because of inflammation? RAY PEAT: In the absence of oxygen, life can't do anything but grow and divide. So anything that blocks the cytochrome c oxidase, blocking oxidative metabolism, tends to stimulate cell division. Because that's all life can do on the lactic acid producing cycle. And experiments both with nitric oxide supplement, or creating the condition such as cutting off the blood supply to cause muscle tissue to produce its own
00:12:20 > excess nitric oxide, they found that it stimulated the multiplication of cells in the muscle. The satellite cells surrounding the muscle fiber itself multiply under the influence of nitric oxide, or simply hypoxia leading to lactic acid production. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So it's a very inflammatory process even though they are describing it as something that is wonderful; you’ll increase your muscles if you take supplements that are precursors for nitric oxide production. RAY PEAT: Yeah. They found that you could cause muscle enlargement and growth just by putting a tourniquet on. Or if you combined mild exercise with a tourniquet... ANDREW MURRAY: ... because of the oxygen deprivation? RAY PEAT: Yes. Really big muscle growth, when we are injuring it. But that’s the basic thing: that cells divide like cancer when they don't have the
00:13:22 > energy to do what they RAY PEAT: should do. ANDREW MURRAY: So it's kind a of negative response to that stimulation. RAY PEAT: Yeah. So any time you injure a tissue, whether it's in the brain, or heart, or blood vessel, pancreas,... whatever. there are stem cells (the satellite cells in muscles are probably just the local stem cells, which might be replenished from bone marrow, for example: but anyway, they function as stem cells). And so anytime a tissue is injured, the lack of oxygen temporarily stimulates the multiplication of stem-like cells which have the potential of regenerating the RAY PEAT: tissue. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So it's a natural process that would happen to stimulate cell growth. But they are twisting it in saying that it's something good (that it increases SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: muscle growth)? RAY PEAT: Well, it's always a local, more
00:14:24 > or less, microscopic process when it’s natural. But if you flood the system, hoping to grow all of your muscles bigger, then you're also providing it to your brain, immune system, gonads; everything is being in effect deprived of oxygen. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So drugs that increase nitric oxide would be classed as carcinogens, RAY PEAT: Yeah. In fact, that’s starting to be recognized, that its a very basic factor in promoting cancer at development, growth and spreading. Okay. Well, you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From 7:30 until 8 o’ clock this evening, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s topic of nitrous or nitric oxide and its damaging effects. And the number here, if you live in the area, is 923 -3911 or there's an 800
00:15:26 > number if you're outside the area 1-800-KMUD- RAD. That's 1-800-5 68-3723. ANDREW MURRAY: Getting back to some of the things that they say (nitric oxide supplements are beneficial for). And actually it’s never the nitric oxide that you get in a capsule or a tablet anyway, is it ? It's the precursor. It’s the amino acid precursor, that nitric oxide ‘s manufactured from. Is there any truth to the vasodilatory, the artery dilating effects that would supposedly help people with blood pressure? I mean is that just completely erroneous science too RAY PEAT: No, it does that. Nitroglycerine was used for a long time to open up heart arteries, and you do increase the flow of blood by relaxing the arterials. The trouble is that
00:16:32 > if you increase it beyond temporary dilation, it's going to start the damaging process of increasing collagen formation, cell multiplication, and so on. So that you can get a momentary effect from sniffing nitroglycerin, for example. But as a chronic thing, or a systemic thing, it's not at all good. In fact it ages. In a chronic situation, for example where your intestine is being irritated (irritable bowel syndrome for example) or just mild digestive problems, you absorb both nitric oxide and endotoxin. And the
00:17:34 > endotoxin increases the production of nitric oxide everywhere. And in the blood vessels, the increased and chronic effect of nitric oxide is to promote thickening, and atherosclerosis, and hardening of the arteries. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So in fact it's actually worsening the condition you are taking it for. If you are taking it for blood pressure or... RAY PEAT: Yea, the momentary effect- over minutes or hours-can be helpful. Like if you have a constricted area, the relaxation (locally in that particular artery) opens up, let’s the blood keep flowing. But when you do that systemically, all you are doing is adding to the chronic inflammation, stress and degeneration of the arteries, heart and all the other RAY PEAT: organs. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: So you’re saying
00:18:36 > the body should be producing a little bit of nitric oxide in that constricted artery? RAY PEAT: When you have a local [constriction], like a pinch of an artery, the cells sense that they aren't getting enough oxygen. And in reaction of the stress, nitric oxide is produced locally, opens it up, So it's like a local regulatory process, and shouldn't ever be a systemic generalized process for treating high RAY PEAT: blood pressure. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: It's like when someone takes nitroglycerin ? RAY PEAT: Yeah. All of what it's doing is relieving a momentary pinch in the heart. Which can be good for the heart I guess. But systemically, it’s... For example, one of the things that it does is to increase aldosterone, the adrenal salt-regulating
00:19:38 > steroid that produces inflammation and fibrosis as a side effect. ANDREW MURRAY: Aldosterone is also implicated for blood pressure regulation, RAY PEAT: isn't it? RAY PEAT: Yeah. Too much aldosterone and you get high blood pressure. So the side effect of chronic nitric oxide can be exactly the opposite of what's been promoted. ANDREW MURRAY: Let me just outline for people that are listening.. and I may be wrong here, I usually find information (or I have from previous knowledge information) that you uncover fairly often to be incomplete or actually not quite correct... But in terms of nitric oxide production, am I right in thinking that there are three major sites: the endothelia (inside the vessel walls), a neuronal synthase (from
00:20:40 > nerve cells), and the inducible form. Is that correct or are there any other methods? RAY PEAT: Yeah. It's generally the inducible form which can occur apparently in any cell, including nerves RAY PEAT: and ... ANDREW MURRAY: ... in response to inflammation ? Or damage ? Or..? RAY PEAT: Yeah. Any stress increases the inducible one. ANDREW MURRAY: A person who I was speaking with earlier, who had amongst other things, one the main symptoms that they had was inflammation of both kidneys. And they had ureteral obstruction, retrograde urinary flow backing up into the kidneys producing a chronic or rather an acute kidney inflammation. And what I read in one of the PubMed articles was that the glomerulus, which is a functionary unit
00:21:42 > of the kidney, is unique in that the vascular networks have the potential themselves to express several of the called iso-forms of nitric oxide synthase, and can produce quite an amount of this in response In terms of the realistic inhibition of nitric oxide, I only found two compounds. One of them (Agmatine) I found advertised by Sigma Aldrich. (it's a fairly big one of the biggest I think in America - chemical firm that will be charging a lot of money for a five milligrams sample). The other one, apparently, is almost as effective, but I think it has a slightly different mechanism, and that is Aminoguanidine. And if you look at that online it is actually sold as a blocker of the glycation process whereby
00:22:44 > sugars and proteins form these glycation end-products that are ANDREW MURRAY: damaging... RAY PEAT: That was it’s first recognized effect. But it turns out that it’s achieving that by blocking nitric oxide, which leads to the oxidation damage to all of the RAY PEAT: blood vessels. ANDREW MURRAY: So is Aminoguanidine as good as Agmatine ? RAY PEAT: Yea, there’s another one that’s just a variation of Aminoguanidine, called Agmatine, which occurs in foods, meat, fish, mushrooms, for example. ANDREW MURRAY: Would you get ANDREW MURRAY: enough of this product from... RAY PEAT: No. It's probably helpful, somewhat. The weightlifters who were using nitric oxide to puff up their muscles heard something about Agmatine, and they started using it. But then the word went around that it's inhibiting
00:23:46 > nitric oxide. So i think there’s some confusion, RAY PEAT: currently. ANDREW MURRAY: Do you think that using Aminoguanidine as a competitive inhibitor of nitric oxide would be a reasonable approach to the kind of systemic inflammation that you find in, say, rheumatoid arthritis ANDREW MURRAY: patients? RAY PEAT: I think it probably is. But I think there are safer things, that have been studied more. Aminoguanidine has been known chemically for over a hundred years I think, but it just hasn't been researched as a medical treatment enough that I would feel very confident of that. The safest inhibitors happen to be niacinamide, which has two or three different routes for inhibiting it, aspirin, which has at least two or three (at least)
00:24:48 > direct and indirect ways of inhibiting it, progesterone, which is partly acting by blocking estrogen's increase of nitric oxide. ANDREW MURRAY: Interesting, because you’ve mentioned niacinamide, and this is the compound you are talking about most for lowering blood sugar in type 1 and 2 diabetic patients. RAY PEAT: Yea, it does just about everything protective. It protects nerve cells against nitric oxide’s damaging effect. And one other pretty safe inhibitor is methylene blue. ANDREW MURRAY: Yes. I’m starting to see more of that compound come up on PubMed articles for quite a few different approaches to disease. I remember seeing
00:25:50 > that also as a chemical that was advertised at Sigma-Aldrich's website. I don't think it was too expensive either. So, methylene blue would certainly be a reasonable approach. If somebody had chronic inflammation, that would most likely be due to excessive nitric oxide production in that tissue. RAY PEAT: Yea, first I would try aspirin, niacinamide and progesterone. It has the most physiological... ANDREW MURRAY: What kind of dosage do you think would be a reasonable suggestion for somebody who wanted to try either niacinamide or aspirin? RAY PEAT: Aspirin, if you take vitamin K, is safe up to several grams a day. But usually, with two doses of 500 mg you get pretty good systemic protection. And vitamin K, incidentally, is
00:26:52 > in several ways helping to hold down nitric oxide production. ANDREW MURRAY: And how about niacinamide? RAY PEAT: It's probably safe up to a thousand milligrams a day. But I only had experience seeing people take about three or four doses of 125 mg each dose. So, a total of two to five hundred milligrams a day can do really dramatic things for curing nerve degeneration and such. ANDREW MURRAY: We got our first caller. Let's take this first caller and see where we go with this one. Caller you are on the air? Caller: Hi, I have a question. Could Dr. Peat could briefly discuss what is cystic fibrosis, and what are the practical strategies for overcoming that condition RAY PEAT: I've never worked with anyone that had it, except
00:27:54 > some people suspecting they might have it. And it turned out they were just very hypothyroid. and The function of the adrenals can cause you to leak chloride. So that you have extreme saltiness of your skin (high chloride content). And that is often used to diagnose cystic fibrosis. But just correcting the thyroid and the adrenal function in the people that I have seen, turned out not to have cystic fibrosis. Just a bad reaction to low thyroid function. Caller: OK, thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Thanks for your call. Okay. So the number here, if you live in the area, is 923-3911. Or if you're outside the area, there's an 800 number, 1-800-56 8-3723. I think we have another caller on
00:28:56 > the air. Let's take this. Where are you from, caller? CALLER: Hi, this is Amy from CALLER: New York. ANDREW MURRAY: Amy, from New York. Welcome to the show. Caller: Thanks for this excellent show. I had a couple of questions for Dr. Peat. I am studying a breathing method that's supposed to increase carbon dioxide levels. And they talk about always breathing through the nose. And I was worried a little about whether that would increase my nitric oxide levels ? Because you are always breathing through the nose ? RAY PEAT: No, anything that irritates your membranes will cause... If you get a runny nose from something you ate, for example, that increases the nitric oxide in your nose. So you want to avoid inflammatory things in your food or atmosphere
00:29:58 > because you do get local and systemic nitric oxide from any inflammatory thing. But breathing trough your nose itself doesn't contribute anything to that local production. CALLER: Okay. RAY PEAT: The idea... CALLER: Sorry? When you breathe through your nose, especially if you have a good long nose, you have better retention of carbon dioxide. The dead space between the air sack in your lung and the outside world... Some of the Buteyko people breathe through an eight inch tube to extend the pathway. But the idea of having a good long nose is that it extends the dead space so you can keep a higher concentration of CO2. Caller: OK. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: I
00:31:00 > find, snorkeling does the same thing. Because your are extending your nose. RAY PEAT: Swimming under water. RAY PEAT: Just holding your breath. Caller: I have one more question, but it's off-topic. ANDREW MURRAY: Go ahead. Caller: I think that You mentioned that it often takes 4 years or even longer to get rid of the unsaturated fat stored in the body ? RAY PEAT: That's for a complete exchange. But you can see a decrease as soon as you change your diet. But it’s gradual, over a period of years. Caller: Yeah, and we do have a preference to burn saturated fats. This is a cleaner burning fat. You mentioned a study that found that pigs that wore sweaters they ended
00:32:02 > up with larger stores of saturated fats than pigs that weren't wearing sweaters. RAY PEAT: A biochemist actually did that. It's just a demonstration that the production of unsaturated fats is a defense against cold because saturated fats harden at low temperature. So if you grow corn or soybeans in the tropics where it it's always 85 to 95 degree, they will produce fairly saturated fats. And fish in the Amazon river have close to the saturation of butter in their fat. Caller: Do you think that's a viable strategy for people ? For example in cold climates, that they want to lose as much of their stored unsaturated fats as quickly as they can.
00:33:04 > Would that be a CALLER: safe way, too? RAY PEAT: Keeping your arm and legs warm is very important for your systemic metabolism. But the pig fat was basically deriving from a starting corn or soy fat, and the pigs , if they’re cold, extend it to make the highly unsaturated long-chain with five or six unsaturated bonds, rather than two or three. When you synthesize unsaturated fats from sugar or starch they are we will make -9 fats based on the Mead acid, which are much less unstable than the fish-oil type. Caller: Oh, I
00:34:06 > see it changed the new stored fat, but it didn't change the fat burning preference on those pigs, the existing fat stores? RAY PEAT: Keeping your body temperature up does help you oxidize fats safely. Caller: When you said that about the cold pigs having much worse fats stored: that reminds me of... Have you heard of this brown fat and these guys that go into freezers and take cold showers and things, and they try to increase their stores of brown fat. The reason they do that is that it burns off all of their white fat. RAY PEAT: I think keeping your thyroid function up is better, because the cold activates a variety of stress hormones that cause
00:35:08 > some side effects, besides of just getting rid of the fat. To TO oxidize your fats while at rest, while having a good resting metabolic rate and high body temperature is the safest way to handle them, rather than increase the stress to increase the fat burning. Caller: OK. Well thank you very much. ANDREW MURRAY: You are welcome. I think we have another caller on the line, so let's take this next caller and find out... Where are you from caller? Caller: I am from CALLER: Madison, Wisconsin. ANDREW MURRAY: Welcome to the show. What's your question. Caller: My first question was that, I have been taking T4. It's working really well for me, but I get some eye-pain sometimes in the process of titrating it. ANDREW MURRAY: Say that again. I didn't hear that part. CALLER: I get some eye pain in the process of
00:36:10 > titrating T4. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Eye pain. ANDREW MURRAY: You're saying you've got some pain? CALLER: Yeah. I'm sorry about that. ANDREW MURRAY: So whatANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So what was your question? Whether or not that is normal or that is ...? was Caller: Is a normal part of the titration CALLER: process? ANDREW MURRAY: When you say titration do you mean you just take in small doses, gradually increasing the dose, or...? Caller: I started on like 5 to 7 mcg and then up to 7 and up to 12, and I responded really well to it, but it seems like I get a little bit of eye-pain. ANDREW MURRAY: We are talking about T3 now? Caller: Oh, I am sorry. CALLER: T4. ANDREW MURRAY: Beg your pardon, OK. So Dr. Peat, that's a very small amount of T4. The caller is asking whether or not you've ever heard of any relationship to eye-pain. RAY PEAT: No, I haven't. But
00:37:12 > I would back off on the T4. If your liver isn't effectively converting it to T3, it can have an anti-thyroid effect by accumulating, turning off your pituitary. And your liver normally is where you get most of your active thyroid hormone. So if your liver isn't doing that, you can accumulate so much T4 it has stress-activating action. ANDREW MURRAY: Do you think it would be better for this person if they wanted to try the active hormone RAY PEAT: Yeah, I think it's always better to use the combination in the traditional way. Or if you are, for some reason, in a hurry or think you have a very bad liver, then small amounts of the active T3 can be done safely.
00:38:14 > SARHA JOHANNSON MURRAY: A lot of problems with doctors prescribing that T4 is, that when someone is low thyroid and they take T4, their livers usually aren't active enough to convert the T4 into the active T3. Because T4 on its own doesn't have any action at all. It doesn't do anything. It has to be converted to T3. And if you take enough T4 you gonna turn off your brain's production of stimulating the thyroid gland (TSH) which naturally produces about one part T3 to four parts T4. So that's why taking the natural glandular ratio of 1:4 of T3 to T4 is what Dr. Peat SARHA JOHANNSON MURRAY: is recommending. RAY PEAT: In the 1940s, when drug companies synthesized thyroxin, they tested it on male medical students and said, "It work's just RAY PEAT: like real thyroid."SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: That's T4, SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: thyroxine. RAY PEAT: Yea, T4. But the thing is that women with high estrogen compared to men always have a more sluggish liver. And
00:39:16 > women are the ones who especially... The 25-year old medical students seldom have liver problems. But a 40-year old female very often has a more sluggish liver so that thyroxine or T4 is very often causing problems in RAY PEAT: women. ANDREW MURRAY: Right. Because of the estrogen they are subjected to at that age has that competitive RAY PEAT: inhibition? SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And actually the T4 can make low thyroid people's problems even worse if they don't convert it into T3. It actually increases adrenaline and makes the person feel worse than they did before SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: they took it. RAY PEAT: One of the effects of good thyroid function is to lower nitric oxide. And nitric oxide, contrary to the advertising, can increase pressure inside your eye. And so, hypothyroidism
00:40:18 > can create enough nitric oxide to cause symptoms such as hardening of the eye, increasing the pressure. Caller: OK, thanks. I was wondering, maybe ... I was switching over from cortisol to thyroid and maybe my eye was running low on energy or something. RAY PEAT: I couldn't understand.. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: The caller said he was switching, he was coming off of cortisol, and trying to go on to thyroid. And he was wondering if his eye was running out of energy. RAY PEAT: Well, cortisol increases the pressure in the eye. So it's possible that you were still producing too much cortisol relative to the protective pregnenolone and progesterone and such. Caller: Interesting.
00:41:20 > I have another question is that OK? ANDREW MURRAY: Yea, go ahead. Caller: I was wondering what percentage of popular lab tests are fraudulent or useless ? I had a TSH test, and I was taking thyroid. And I stopped, like about a week before the test. And my doctor said that that my TSH was normal. But when I went off the thyroid... I started getting like boils on my scalp, and other problems. And I was curious how many of the tests out there don't have very much value ? RAY PEAT: I think the main problem is that doctors are taught that the TSH normal range is something like 0.4 to 5.0. But that number has been decreasing. The American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists has lowered it to 0.3 to 3.0. And a population of healthy
00:42:22 > people without thyroid cancer or other thyroid problems, they average 0.4 TSH or less without taking a thyroid supplement. ANDREW MURRAY: Meaning that if you are anything over 1 or 1.5, or getting anything closer to 2, you definitely seem like you would benefit from using the hormone. Caller: I think I was at 3.7 or something. ANDREW MURRAY: Yea, that would be outside of the range according to the lowered advised figures that have been issued. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: And isn't it correct, Dr. Peat, that while someone might be taking T4 and not really converting it much to T3, their TSH would still lower? RAY PEAT: Yea, and the stress hormones will lower it too. So you can't really diagnose anything by TSH alone, even though that’s how some doctors do it. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: Especially when someone who is low thyroid.
00:43:24 > They are usually running on excessive adrenaline. And excessive adrenaline will lower the TSH and give you a false positive, rather than SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: a false negative. RAY PEAT: And high cortisol lowers it. And also at the same time causes the liver to turn thyroxin into reverse T3, which interferes even more than thyroxin with the active RAY PEAT: T3 function. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: It blocks the real T3 from actually doing anything. Caller: That's interesting. ANDREW MURRAY: I thank you... Do you have anything else to say. I am sorry, I don't want to cut you off. Caller: Are his books still available? ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: They have been converted to electronic form and we are going to figure out how to make them available very soon electronically. Caller: OK. Thank you very much, Dr. Peat, and also thank you herb doctors very much.
00:44:26 > CALLER: I appreciate you a lot. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Your are welcome, thank you for your call. ANDREW MURRAY: Do we have anything else on hold? [The number....] 923-3911. Or if you're outside the area and want to use a toll-free number, that's 1-800- 568- 3723. We are talking with Dr. Raymond Peat today about nitric oxide and its popular use for body-building and for male enhancement, amongst other things. And how damaging nitric oxide is. And how much information and research there is to show that it's actually more carcinogenic than anything else. Talking along the lines of the carcinogen. I saw articles that were demonstrating that nitric oxide was responsible for damaging DNA. And that's how they could directly implicate it in being a carcinogen. RAY PEAT: Yeah. Just several years ago radiation biologists were seeing that
00:45:28 > cells which were hit by X-rays or gamma-rays emitted something which would cause apparent radiation damage in the neighborhood. So you could take the irradiated cells out of the culture dish, put new cells in , and they acted as if they have been irradiated. And nitric oxide turned out to be a major transmitter of that effect. So it's like you are being irradiated. You do produce a lot of nitric oxide, and it spreads to adjoining cells. So anything that sparks the inflammation tends to spread the nitric oxide which not only breaks the strands of DNA, but it also changes the methylation. So that the whole control system for expressing DNA in your chromosomes is altered under a
00:46:30 > chronic excess of nitric RAY PEAT: oxide. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, I hold you there a moment, Dr. Peat. We have one person on hold and another coming in. Let's start with by next caller. Caller where are you from? Caller: Eureka. ANDREW MURRAY: Eureka. Go ahead, and what's your question. Caller: I wondered what alternatives to blood pressure medicines? RAY PEAT: If you look at the symptoms of chronic hypothyroidism, hypertension is one of 10 the prominent things. A very large proportion of the people who think they have a high blood pressure problem are simply hypothyroid. The TSH itself, which rises when you are hypothyroid -even within the normal range-it's
00:47:32 > increasing your various stress hormones and increasing your blood pressure. So TSH is a pro -inflammatory factor and one of the factors causing hypertension. So you wanna keep that low just for general health. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So caller you could ask your doctor for a test of TSH: and if it is above 0.4, then perhaps you can think about taking a thyroid supplement. ANDREW MURRAY: OK, I think we have another caller on the line. Let's take this next caller. Caller, where are you from? CALLER: Is that I? ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. You're on the air. Where are you from? CALLER: Garberville. ANDREW MURRAY: Garberville, okay. What's your question? CALLER: I wanted to know the name of your practice and the telephone number. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Well, let's give it out at the end of the show. CALLER: You won't be giving it out until the end of the show. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. Let's not spend the time on that now. We'll wait till the end of the show. CALLER: Okay. I'll hang on. Thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, thank you. So, I don't know if there's anybody else on the line. SOUND ENGINEER: WeSOUND ENGINEER: We did have one person call in
00:48:34 > and ask, just not to be on the air, about COPD. about COPD . He was diagnosed. had Any information ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease? There was a caller who left a message with the engineer. As an inflammatory or a fibrous type of inflammation. How do you see that? The etiology. Or the treatment? RAY PEAT: I have known several people who had it. One of my friends who was in his 80s when I visited him in Toluca 8500 feet altitude. He was blue in the face and just panting, sitting down, and he didn't recognize me, his brain wasn't getting enough oxygen. I gave his daughter some pregnenolone, progesterone and thyroid to give to him a little
00:49:36 > bit every day. When I came back two weeks later, he was back at work up in his upper floor office without an elevator and took me around the city making me pant. Just a dramatic improvement in oxygen absorption in his lungs. ANDREW MURRAY: Is that how you would see that, plausibly, being a mechanism by which someone could regain their breath again? RAY PEAT: Yeah. High estrogen and nitric oxide are two things that can cause leakage of fluid into the air sacks, and a thickening of the pathway between the air and the capillary. So that the oxygen has to pass through such a thick layer, that it just isn't getting to the blood at a
00:50:38 > high enough concentration. Pregnenolone alone seems to sometimes very quickly improve oxygenation. SARHA JOHANNESSON MURRAY: And what would be a good recommended starting dose for pregnenolone and progesterone? And thyroid, for someone with obstruct pulmonary SARHA JOHANNESSON MURRAY: disease? RAY PEAT: Well with thyroid you want to start very slowly because it increases your need for oxygen as well as improving the lung function. So it's good to start with pregnenolone I think, which doesn't have any hormonal effect . It does help to prevent edema and swelling of the membranes. The dose of pregnenolone doesn't really matter. You just don't want take such a big dose that you are getting additives and contaminants. So 15, 20, 30 milligrams is often a therapeutic dose, but it's OK to take
00:51:40 > 100 to 300 milligrams if you know the stuff is clean. With progesterone the same thing, 10 to 30 milligrams can make a big difference. ANDREW MURRAY: I wanted to ask you the question about the relationship between antibiotics (and not the latest and greatest antibiotics), specifically minocycline. I saw some articles on PubMed again demonstrating that it lowered the inducible form of nitric oxide and the cytokines that are pro-inflammatory. What do you think about minocycline? RAY PEAT: For several years it's been recognized as a helpful factor for Alzheimer's disease and other brain RAY PEATproblems SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: Is that just because it's blocking the endotoxin production? RAY PEAT: It blocks the nitric RAY PEAT: oxide production. SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: Directly blocking the nitric oxide production? RAY PEAT: It directly blocks the enzyme, the way niacinamide
00:52:42 > does. ANDREW MURRAY: I saw another article again for another old fashioned antibiotic, tetracycline. What do you know about tetracycline? RAY PEAT: It's in the same family: doxicycline, tetracycline and minocycline. Tetracycline, the only problem with it is that it’s too cheap. So doctors are not RAY PEAT: educated to ... SARHA JOHANNESON MURRAY: So I wonder if cascara would have a similar effect, because it has anthraquinones that are very similar to the tetracycline. RAY PEAT: Yea, I think that structure is what’s happening ... ANDREW MURRAY: We have another caller on the air. So let's take this next caller. Hi, what's your question? Caller: I was wondering if you guys could talk about the human growth hormone CALLER: at all. ANDREW MURRAY: OK, in relation to anything particular or...? Caller: Well, some of my friends
00:53:44 > were talking about it [in relation] to weightlifting. They were talking about it like it's a good thing to build your muscles. ANDREW MURRAY: Same problems as with nitric oxide, i think. Dr. Peat, what do you have to say to somebody who’s using growth hormone? RAY PEAT: You have the same problems that you get from nitric oxide or estrogen. Women, surprisingly, chronically during their reproductive years have high growth hormone chronically. And the growth hormone causes a breakdown of fat in the free fatty acids. So women under the influence of estrogen typically have a chronic exposure to free fatty acids. Which is, if they are unsaturated, increases oxidative damage. And that's just a standard function
00:54:46 > of growth hormone: it’s to raise your free fatty acids. And that's probably why they see an increased thickness in the wall of blood vessels in the kidneys causing a progressive loss of kidney function from overexposure, or chronic high exposure, to growth hormone. And suspicion that it increases the risk of diabetes , which free fatty acids are known to cause. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So it's very inflammatory. ANDREW MURRAY: It's unfortunate. But it's like another cult. Unfortunately, males a little bit are seduced by the potential of growing bigger muscles using anabolic steroids and other compounds. And so obviously growth hormone again is advertised very widely ANDREW MURRAY: in bodybuilding magazines. Caller: What does CALLER: anabolic mean? ANDREW MURRAY: Muscle building. It's the opposite of catabolism, which is muscle breakdown.
Unfortunately, most body building magazines are reasonably rife with products that I know would not be founded on science to be beneficial for you. It's unfortunate. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And also the supplements that are touted to increase nitric oxide: people want to avoid those, like arginine and ANDREW MURRAY: citrulline. ANDREW MURRAY: We probably need to wrap up this show. Thanks for the callers that called in. Dr. Peat, as always, thanks so much for your time and dedication. We really appreciate you joining us on the show. RAY PEAT: OK, thank you.