Herb Doctors: Continuing Research On Urea

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > ANDREW MURRAY:My name is Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:My name is Sarah

00:01:56 > Johannesen Murray. ANDREW MURRAY:For those of you who perhaps have never listened to the shows,which run every third Friday of the month from 7till 8 PM, we’re both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. And werun a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and recommend herbal medicine and dietary advice. So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD, Garberville 91.1 FM. And from 7:30 until the end of the show at 8 o’ clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions related or unrelated to this month’s subject of the continuing research on urea.The number, if you live in the area, is 923-3911. Or if you live outside the area, there is a toll-free number, which is 1-800-KMUD -RAD, which is 1-800-568-3723. And we can also be reached toll-free on 1-888-WBM-HERB for consultations or further information Monday through Friday. Okay.So, once again, we’re very

00:02:58 > pleased to have Dr. Raymond Peat joining us on the show to share on his latest research.Dr. Peat, are you there? RAY PEAT:Yes. ANDREW MURRAY:Okay, thanks so much for joining us again.As always, just like to start the show by giving you the opportunity here to let people know your academic and scientific background, what you do and who you are? RAY PEAT: I got my PhD in Biology, specializing in Physiology and Biochemistry, especially reproductive physiology at University of Oregon, 1972.And before that, I had been interested in language, philosophy and psychology and planned to study brain biology, but I found that the reproductive physiology seemed more scientific and more interesting.So I specialized in that but continued to be interested in the rest of the organism.So

00:04:00 > first thing I did after [inaudible] isto write a book on the brain, the reviewing of Russian science,19th century through the 20th century on brain biology. So I’ve continued interest in how the basic energy physiology relates to things such as reproduction, aging, and brain functions. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, alright. Well, I know that your most recent newsletter, you were continuing your discourse and your thoughts on urea and its use in pathology and how you see the function of urea as benefitting people in light of perhaps it being dismissed,if you like, by mainstream medical science.I know that you mentioned

00:05:02 > Danopoulos, the Greek physician, who has been successfully using urea as a therapy, injecting it into tumors and its use in cancer, but this newsletter that you’ve most recently written more explores some other physiological effects of urea that perhaps people might not have been aware of or if, in fact,that research has been done some time ago, it may now be buried and forgotten.So just wanted to pick up on quite a few other things that you mentioned in your newsletter Go ahead.\ ARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So, Dr. Peat, can you tell us what urea is? RAY PEAT:It’s a name Chemically, it is carbamide It’s is just a combination of ammonia with carbon dioxide.So it’s body’s way of detoxifying ammonia and it requires oxidative production of carbon dioxide to combine with the ammonia to get rid of it,

00:06:04 > and so it regulates cell pH,which regulates water metabolism and everything else in cell function. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So it’s something that our body’ sproduce. RAY PEAT: Yeah. ANDREW MURRAY:All right. So, given that we now understand that excess water in the cell is acentral feature of the major degenerative diseases that you outline, things like heart failure, dementia, and cancer.How do you explain how this happens and what is the best strategy to prevent this if water accumulation in a cell is implied in such an inflammatory situation as these things that we’vementioned? RAY PEAT: One of the dimensions of thinking about water and cells is that it comes up against some of the basic dogmas of what life is and how cells work and so on.And I think the reason that Danopoulos’ amazing results in curing cancer with simply injecting

00:07:06 > or giving intravenous urea,I think the reason it’sbeen ignored and dismissed is that it involves some ideas that don’t fit with these mechanical dogmas of 20th century biology, such as the membrane theory, the idea that there are pumps in cell surface membranes that regulate the amount of water and minerals in cells by somehow grabbing the molecules and pushing them in or out of the cell. It’s really a silly, impossible concept,but it’ what everything officially is based on.So, when you actually look at the facts of what’s happening with water, if you think in terms of things such as what happens when

00:08:08 > gelatin gets wet and swells up and if you put acid or alkali on it, what happens to its relation to water and so on, acid makes it shrink, alkali makes it swell up. And simple physical ideas like that are very useful for thinking about what happens in all of the diseases. ANDREW MURRAY:Okay.You say that acid makes it shrink and alkaline situations make it swell? RAY PEAT:Yes. And swelling has an anabolic effect and turns on cell division and uncontrollable cell division can produce everything from a cancer to various skin diseases of dandruff, for example, psoriasis overgrowth

00:09:10 > of fibrous tissue. The control of cell growth is very deeply controlled by water and pH, and so the membrane -pumppeople blame everything in life on this magical pump that regulates the water and the pH. But if you just think about the basic metabolic processes, in which you turn sugar or fat or protein into energy and carbon dioxide, this constant streaming of substance, carbon dioxide is an acid and you are making it inside cells. And so, when you are alive, you are making cells acidic. And as it leaves, it takes minerals out of the cell with it

00:10:12 > in the form of carbonic acid and the alkaline minerals associated with it. ANDREW MURRAY:This is a better state than the alkaline state they’re in. RAY PEAT:Yeah. Thealkaline – the acidic state produced by carbon dioxide causes a shift in the whole balance of electrons in the protein- nucleic acid system and that shift of electrons accounts for the preference of the cell for potassium normally over sodium. ANDREW MURRAY:Okay. RAY PEAT:If the cell is disturbed, then it shifts and loses potassium and takes up calcium and sodium. This is what Gilbert Ling has devoted his life to for the last 60 some years. ANDREW MURRAY:Sorry. I just wanted to say that this – I guess for people that are listening, I think a lot

00:11:14 > of people and the lay people associate this kind of – what we’re talking about, acid versus alkali, they’re always thinking about, ‘oh, an acid situation is more Cancer promoting and to be alkaline is a better situation in terms of health benefits.’ RAY PEAT:That’s true when you apply it to the blood and the fluid outside of cell, but the reason the fluid outside of cells is alkaline is that the protons – the electrons are being retracted into an acidic state inside the cell and that shifts the balance and makes it alkaline outside. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So what you are saying is when the cell inside – when the inside of the cell becomes alkaline, that’s when it becomes swollen and boggy and that’s what can contribute to heart disease, cancer, psoriasis, all these degenerative diseases we’ve mentioned. RAY PEAT:And that goes with a shift towards acidity in the blood

00:12:16 > and the outside fluid. ANDREW MURRAY:Got it. RAY PEAT:So that’s where people are thinking about, youdon’t want to be acidic metabolically.That refers to the fluid outside of cells. And it’s only since the nuclear magnetic resonance apparatuses have been used, last 40 years mostly, that people have started to recognize that inside cells should be slightly acidic. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So how do we make the inside of our cells more acidic and keep the outside of our cells, extracellular and the blood, alkaline. RAY PEAT:Keeping the energy flowing, producing carbon dioxide constantly by consuming oxygen. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So we need ourselves to be consuming oxygen properly. RAY PEAT:Yeah. And just suffocating – just turning off the oxygen supply, so you stop making steady supply of

00:13:18 > carbon dioxide.The metabolism shifts over to making lactic acid and the lactic acid takes acid out of the cell as it’s leaving and acidifies the environment, but leaves the cell more alkaline. ANDREW MURRAY:Right. And that’s the negative acidic situation that most people commonly refer to when they about acid versus alkaline blood. RAY PEAT:Yeah. It’s a local inflammatory situation. Anytime a tissue is entered, it tends to produce excess lactic acid and become inflamed and inefficient SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So how does urea really help our ourselves use oxygen better RAY PEAT:The or to keep the cell more acidic? cell holds its structure by the way

00:14:20 > proteins are folded, which requires an interaction with everything in the cell has to participate in that slightly acidic state, making carbon dioxide, keeping the ATP level at a high energy state, keeping the water participating in the way proteins are folded, so that there is lot of internal surface area exposed in the cell. You how the surface of glass of water has a sort of rubbery film on the top that you can float a piece of steel or such on. The surface tension inside the cell when the proteins are energized, the ATP is holding them in this state exposing their surface, keeping the cell’s water in that energized, tough state that

00:15:22 > helps to hold the cell together. When it is de-energized, the structure collapses in various ways. For example, spherical proteins that we’re exposing all of their surface polymerize into stock-like proteins that have less surface exposure and the water becomes more like plain bulk water under the tough surface And this water then behaves very differently and that’ sthe kind of water that is involved in cell swelling, growth, uncontrolled cell division and so on. ANDREW MURRAY:It is also – the pH inside a cell also regulates the proteins’ folding ability to a large degree that proteins don’t confirmatively[?] fold properly in the wrong pH. RAY PEAT:Yeah. In the case of any

00:16:24 > protein jelly, even some synthetic plastics, the alkalinity has the same effect of making the jelly swell up and kept watery and soft. ANDREW MURRAY:Right. So, again, another reason why the alkaline internal environment would not be helpful. RAY PEAT:Yeah. ANDREW MURRAY:Yeah. Okay, good. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Well, inside the cell. ANDREW MURRAY:Insidethe cell, yeah, yeah. It’s good to clarify that. RAY PEAT:The urea happens to be a strange kind of solvent that it is pretty much equally at home inside and outside the cell, but it’s slightly more at home in a healthy stable cell, so that just by solubility, if you immerse cells in a solution with a certain amount of urea, the urea is going to come to rest at a higher concentration in cells. No pumping is involved. It’s simply

00:17:26 > that it’s soluble in the cell at a slightly higher degree than in plain water. And inside the cell, it participates with the relaxed or energized state of the cell in which surfaces is exposed. So the urea helps the proteins to expose the energized surface that keeps cells in the functioning high-energy state. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:And that’s how Danopouloshelped with cancer, was by injecting the urea into the cells and that helped him maintain their shape and function to a better degree. RAY PEAT:And to keep it towards the slightly acidic, metabolizing state, in which it doesn’t tend to proliferate, a relatively slightly dehydrated effect. So it’s like you have now a new solvent – solute

00:18:28 > substance when it has the right amount of urea mixed in with the proteins and fats and water.It creates a new state of matter that has its own solubility properties for other things, including the preference for potassium over sodium and for magnesium over calcium and so on. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:Right. So it’s helping the mineral balance of the cell to be more balanced. ANDREW MURRAY:Now, I think you also stated that urea itself is not an osmolyte.It does not affect pH, is that right? RAY PEAT:Yeah. That’s been known for over a hundred years People simply use the semi-permeable membrane setup and found that it doesn’t behave like a sodium or potassium or other things that are known to be

00:19:30 > osmolytes and to pull water across a semi-permeable membrane and so on. In 1914, I think it was, the first one – around the First World War, someone was demonstrating that you could make it five or six times more concentrated than it should be osmotically and it would be in balance and not cause cells to lose water.It would hold the cell in the proper state where if you had 5 or 6 times the concentration of sugar or salt you would dry up your… ANDREW MURRAY:You would be in trouble. RAY PEAT:[inaudible] when you put salt on the slug ANDREW MURRAY:Yeah, right.It takes all the water out of it.Okay RAY PEAT:Presumably a slug wouldn’t find concentrated urea. ANDREW MURRAY: Interesting. And I think you’ve also mentioned that that concentration, 5 to 6 times,it is nothing as much as, say, a

00:20:32 > hundred times which is still compatible with life and it doesn’t actually –it has a very, very low toxicity. It is not at all toxic, is it? RAY PEAT:No.And sea organisms, sharks,for example, have a very, very high level of urea imbalance. ANDREW MURRAY:Is that right? RAY PEAT:And the experiments have shown that even more than a hundred times what we normally have doesn’t cause any damage that can be seen in cells. And therapeutically, Danopoulosand others [inaudible] that may be a hundred times our normal urea level in the serumis actually therapeutic for certain things, cancer and brain function, for example. ``ANDREW MURRAY:Because I think there is quite a lot of references to urea from the “scientific community” that are not really interested in it or are

00:21:34 > just trying to play it downas being irrelevant and they have urea analogs, I think, which are far more problematic that they would want to suggest or not even mention urea RAY PEAT: Sickle cell anemia, for example, was being treated successfully with urea and normal cells under stress tend to be hardened the way sickle cells become stiff… ANDREW MURRAY:Okay. RAY PEAT:…and won’t go through capillaries. Just during heart surgery, the stress causes ordinary round blood cells to become stiffened and malfunction, tending to kill the patient. And with a supplement of urea, that hardening of the red cells by stress is prevented and it was therapeutic for the sickle cell patients. But because of the myth of the urea

00:22:36 > being an osmolyte – someone used plain urea at a certain concentration without the normal sodium and other minerals in the solution and found that it broke –immediately caused red blood cells to break down, so they said that can’t be good. ANDREW MURRAY:Oops! RAY PEAT:So they stopped using it and shifted over to very toxic, carcinogenic hydroxyurea, which is still in use. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:But you do know doctors that use this current day, right? RAY PEAT:There are publications currently recommending its use, hydroxyurea. But did you mean using real urea? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Yeah, I was meaning the real urea. RAY PEAT: Okay. A few people are using it, for example, to prevent killing patients in heart surgery, but it definitely isn’t a well -recognized treatment. ANDREW MURRAY:I think you say – did I

00:23:38 > understand correctly when you said that urea in the absence of the other electrolytes would have a negative effect? RAY PEAT: It acts like distilled water’s osmotic property. ANDREW MURRAY:Soit has to be osmotically balanced with regular concentration of solids that you’d normally find in blood. RAY PEAT:It would take about six times as much urea as normal to not break down the red cells. ANDREW MURRAY: Interesting. So whatever they – I am not too sure what it is, but, for example, just for people that are listening to understand the concept that I am trying to describe to you and that you are describing to me, is that, if you have, for example, a 1 millimolar concentration of urea in your blood normally, then if you were to inject a 5 or 6 millimolar concentration of urea into the capillary or into the artery or whatever, it wouldn’t have a negative effect, it would be acceptable. But if it was injected as a 1 millimolar solution, which we’d find naturally in the blood, you’d have a problem with that.

00:24:40 > RAY PEAT: Yeah, assuming that the other things like sodium and calcium and potassium aren’t compensating for the difference in urea. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:So what about taking it orally? RAY PEAT:That’s been done also for over a hundred years, treating heart failure. And one person reported on – I think he said he had had heart failure patients doing well on oral urea for as long as 9 years. ANDREW MURRAY: And this is because it isn’t adiuretic and it’s… RAY PEAT:Yeah, that was the argument that they were using it. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: As it did relieve the swollen legs and such that occur in congestive heart failure. But I think since you also see it bringing people back from brain damage in a

00:25:42 > traumatic head injury and strokes and such,it, I think, has much deeper therapeutic effect, stabilizing cells in many ways, not just reducing the swelling by causing diuresis. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. You are listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor,KMUD 91.1 FM, Garberville. This month, Dr. Peat is being questioned about his latest newsletter on urea. I know we’ve mentioned urea and a Greek physician, Dr. Danopoulos, several months back in his treatment of cancer. But this month, we’re going to be talking more about the other beneficial aspects of urea and certain other inflammatory conditions, dementia, cancer etc. We’ll be bringing out some of the reasons how urea could actually be very helpful for this. The number, if you live in the area, is 923-3911. Or there’s a toll-free number

00:26:44 > which is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. So from 07:30 till the end of the show, people are invited to call in with any questions. It would be good if people could keep to the subject matter. Okay. So,anyway,the other question I wanted to ask you about, the diuretic activity of urea. And you mentioned it being useful in congestive heart failure and other edema-type water swelling situations because of its ability to mobilize water. Do you have any comparisons, if you like? For traditional diuretics I know that they used to be non-potassium sparing and then they brought out these kind of loop diuretics that were potassium sparing. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:I mean, the common furosemide that’s still used is not potassium sparing. You have to take a potassium supplement with that. So… ANDREW MURRAY: How do you – are you able to answer that, whether you have any opinion about diuretics and their use versus something like

00:27:46 > urea? RAY PEAT: Yeah, I have opinions,but I haven’t finished thinking about the subjective. You remember, Mercury was a traditional diuretic and it apparently worked just by sort of killing the tubes of the kidney and letting the water kind of fall out of the body. ANDREW MURRAY: Not to be recommended. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:And, like, radiation was useful for treating psoriasis.X-rays were useful for treating psoriasis and arthritis, right? RAY PEAT:Yeah. And I think some of the chemical diuretics are about as well founded as mercury… ANDREW MURRAY:Right. RAY PEAT:…as a diuretic. But chemicals that made the kidneys give up more water don’t necessarily really improve the person’s health. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY:The cells could be still holding on to the water and not… RAY PEAT:Yeah. And besides stress – for example,

00:28:48 > in a heart surgery, it involves water retention, failure of the kidney function leading to things like hardening of the red blood cells and stiffening of the capillaries and so on. But any stress involves a series of reactions, all of which relates to the way cells handle water. Nitric oxide is a universally produced thing by injury and stress and it causes de-energizing and a swelling of cells. And estrogen is a physiological producer of swelling, imitating a stress reaction,and being produced by stress. And one of the brain or pituitary hormones, antidiuretic hormone, is another stress-induced

00:29:50 > producer of water retention and edema. And old people, as well as traumatized people who are hospitalized, fairly often develop a state of water retention with sodium loss They call it hyponatremia or the syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion. But estrogen happens to produce the same effect, and so they say estrogen activates the receptors of the antidiuretic hormone when you can’t find the actual hormone. But the same conditions, they say it’s because the receptors are acting independently. And nitric oxide, estrogen, and antidiuretic hormone produce the state of getting water logged by losing

00:30:52 > sodium into the urine and producing fairly concentrated urine, but keeping over-hydrated cells and blood supply. And the normal basic thing that regulates the ability to release water through the kidneys, while retaining sodium is the particular energized electronic state of the cells governing the way the tube of the kidney electrically relates to its surroundings, the production of carbondioxide and carbonic acid.The carbonic anhydrase enzyme is one of the targets of some of the diuretics,such as acetazolamide, so that the body retains more

00:31:54 > carbondioxide and doesn’tlose so much sodium. And the normal regulator of carbondioxide and sodium-water balance is the thyroid hormone. And hypothyroid people always tend towards the syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion or the appearance of simply hyponatremia being water logged, water of sodium. So the sodium itself – sodium chloride or sodium bicarbonate can cure a lot of these stress conditions. ANDREW MURRAY: Do you think the same water logging could be borne out in things like a boggy intestine or a swollen intestine that fails to move food along properly and contributes

00:32:56 > endotoxin reabsorption because of the inefficient movement? RAY PEAT: Yeah. The intestine is especially exposed to things such as endotoxin, which release nitric oxide which has this de-energizing, cell swelling effect, water logging effect. ANDREW MURRAY: So bicarbonate sodium, you mentioned just before I interrupted there, would be another good way of liberating CO2. And when taken internally would have a local topical activity too. RAY PEAT: Yeah. And surprisingly, even sodium chloride has a diuretic effect in most people. And when you use the baking soda, the kidneys are able to retain as much sodium as they want, but the bicarbonate can be changed back into carbon dioxide and it can actually help to acidify

00:33:58 > cells on the inside, while maintaining the sodium on the outside. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: So that’s something people can just swallow by the quarter teaspoon or half teaspoon mixed with water. RAY PEAT: Yeah. I know people who have taken a teaspoon two or three a day with water for many years. Athletes sometimes take a tablespoon with water before an endurance race. And I think part of the effect on endurance is more basic than just preventing getting water logged. I think it’s actually helping to prevent excess nitric oxide production. ANDREW MURRAY: And am I not right in thinking that the endurance runners, marathon runners, some of these people collapsing from cardiac arrest are hyponatremics, so they’re low – they suddenly get low sodium. RAY PEAT: Yeah. I think

00:35:00 > that’s probably the most common reason for endurance runners collapsing and dying. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Well, you’re listening to Ask Your Herb DoctorKMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. And from now until 8 o’ clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions surrounding this month’s continuing topic of urea and its treatment in such things as cardiac illnesses, dementia, cancer and we’ll get into a few others here later on. The number is, like I said, 923-3911. Or if you live outside the area,it’s a 1-800 number, which is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. So going on to aging, seems a little bit just indistinct perhaps from this month’s subject, but in terms of the concept of hydration and skin and the appearance of skin and the water content of cells not necessarily being helpful, but being more detrimental in a low energy state. I wanted you to just

00:36:02 > discuss the idea of young – young babies and newborns and young teenagers and young adults having a fairly plum healthy s kins that’s fairly thick – I don’t want to confuse that with a skin being boggy because that would seem to imply there’s too much water in the cells. But in terms of aging and youth and the skin’s appearance and the production of of keratin, which is a flaky layer, maybe more associated with older people. Is there anything perhaps that can be done to improve the quality of the skin would be related to water? RAY PEAT: The plumpness largely is water content. Any cell, all the way from fertilized ovum all the way to a 100 -year-old person, the cell water content decreases

00:37:04 > pretty steadily with aging until an old cell which is still very functional, no disease evident, is pretty dried up relative to the 92% water of the fertilized ovum, it gets down to something like 65% water in old cells as a steady progression without any particular disease happening. And as that happens, cell division is slowed, so that in your skin, over time, you see fewer cells in skin, meaning that it’s thinner, there just isn’t as much living skin there in old people. The column of growing cells in the surface layer, the

00:38:06 > squamous epithelium of skin and mucus membranes, there is a column of eight or ten growing cells in a young skin and only maybe two or three cells that are still actively growing in old skin. And that’s partly just because they’re slowing down, but they’re also the piling up, collapsed, cornified or keratinized cells accumulate in the old skin. The maturing process comes on prematurely in – with aging or with some types of stress, for example, a vitamin A deficiency will cause premature keratinizing or hardening of the skin

00:39:08 > and the skin will become thinner and tougher, lower water content. Estrogen does this normally cyclically in the mucus membranes, causing at first faster growth because there is a greater water uptake under the influence of estrogen, rapid thickening and growing. But then, an increased formation of keratin fibers and hardening of the surface. So some of the effects of estrogen are just like vitamin A deficiency and you can offset some of the effects, both with aging and estrogen, by simply supplementing some vitamin A and vitamin E directly into the skin. And urea, old skin

00:40:10 > has much less urea in it than young skin. And that’s probably both a cause and effect of the lower water content with aging. ANDREW MURRAY: We have the first caller on the line. So let me hold you there, Dr. Peat, if you don’t mind and let’s take this next caller and see where we’re going. Hi, caller. You’re on the air and where are you from? CALLER: I'm from [inaudible]. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, hi CALLER: Hi. My dad is in a hospital right now with a CH [?] and dementia. And so, interactions between his medicine for the [inaudible] heart too. But his [inaudible] is normal, but the creatinine was not normal. And I'm wondering if oral urea would be better for him to take with – and not take the furosemide.

00:41:12 > RAY PEAT: You can find articles about the use of urea in heart failure and comparing it to other diuretics on Pubmed. For example, if you put in urea heart failure, you can find the articles on Pubmed. CALLER: Okay, thank you. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: So would that be something he could use orally? RAY PEAT: It’s very tasteless, a little maybe on the salty side. So it’s usually taken with orange juice or grapefruit juice, just so you don’t taste it. A small amount, anywhere from a fourth of a teaspoon to a glass up to maybe a teaspoon for a glass. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, good. CALLER: Would it be okay if he takes that with his diuretic he’s already prescribed? RAY PEAT: I don’t think it interferes with the diuretics, but it

00:42:14 > just makes them unnecessary. CALLER: Okay. That’s good to hear. Thank you for helping me. ANDREW MURRAY: All right. Thanks for your call. We’ve got two more callers on the air. So let’s take the next caller. Caller, you’re on the air, and where are you from? CALLER: Yes, hello. [inaudible]. ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. CALLER: Yes. I would like to know what one should ingest to make the cells more acidic on the inside and the blood better – more alkaline on the outside, like you’re saying is good for you. You say that ingesting this urea is good. RAY PEAT: Getting adequate protein in your diet is probably the thing that most people could make the biggest difference with. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: That increases urea, you’re saying, Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: Yeah. You can measure the increased output of urea in the urine in proportion to the amount of protein you’re eating if

00:43:16 > your digestion is good and if your thyroid function is good. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Then you can digest it. CALLER: So like eating red meat is good for that? RAY PEAT: It shouldn’t be too high in phosphate. Meat is very high in phosphate. And so, gelatin is good as a supplement. If you make soup with the collagenous joint tissue, for example… SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Like, Ox tail or shank. CALLER: Do you recommend then just eating a little bit of meat and not too much? RAY PEAT: Yeah. I think it’s better to get a big part of your protein from other foods such as… CALLER: Like what? RAY PEAT: Egg, milk, and cheese, and some… CALLER: Eggs? RAY PEAT: …of the high quality vegetables like potatoes and mushrooms. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Eggs, milk and cheese, potatoes, mushroom, those are some high protein… CALLER: Are eggs good? SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Yes. RAY PEAT: Egg is very good. CALLER: Okay. And you mentioned sodium chloride. That’s salt. Is salt good

00:44:18 > for your heart or for your blood or what were you talking about? Is putting salt in your food good? RAY PEAT: There are some articles on my website about salt. You can use the little search device on the website to find… CALLER: I don’t have a computer. RAY PEAT: Salting your food to taste is the best way to tell. CALLER: And that will keep your kidneys functioning better? RAY PEAT: In people who are under stress, for example, women with toxemia of pregnancy… CALLER: What about this in general, just normal, aging and wanting to keep as healthy as you can when you’re getting older? RAY PEAT: Yeah, I’ve known many young women and a few old people who had been put on a low sodium diet because of various problems and using the studies on pregnant toxemia

00:45:20 > people, I suggested they try the same thing. CALLER: Now, what about potassium? What does that do for you? I know low potassium isn’t good. RAY PEAT: Too much potassium can slow your heart rate. But at the right amount, such as having lots of fruit and vegetables, potassium tends to protect against high blood pressure, relaxing blood vessels. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: So as you were saying, Dr. Peat, you were saying that using the studies they did with the pregnant women, you can apply the same principle to aging? RAY PEAT: Yeah. I saw the same problems existing in women in their 20s and 30s and men in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, having a variety of inflammatory and high blood pressure symptoms and such. I suggested that they s alt their food to taste instead ANDREW MURRAY: Low sodium diet. RAY PEAT: …restricting it. CALLER: Yes. I know there’s a lot of controversy about salt and we’ve been

00:46:22 > taught a lot that salt is bad, it causes high blood pressure, it causes water retention. So you don’t think that’s true? SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: They’ve disproven that. They only started saying you shouldn’t salt when they wanted to sell their diuretic. So it’s just been all one big scam. CALLER: Okay. Well, I’ve had one cardiologist tell me not to eat salt, although she didn’t want to give me a diuretic. And the other one said, yes, eat salt because it will keep up your blood volume and that’s probably good for you. RAY PEAT: The blood volume gets oxygen and nutrients to the kidneys and keeps them working. CALLER: So hydration is very important. RAY PEAT: Yeah. CALLER: But what about – the first question I asked about the cells. Can we make sure that the inner cells are acidic enough? SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: That was the protein. That’s why he suggested the protein because that will keep the urea up. CALLER: Okay. So eat protein, eat salt, but not too much meat. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. CALLER: I know that there’s a gout that’s supposed to be caused by eating too much meat. I'm not sure what gout is RAY PEAT: Well,

00:47:24 > doctors aren’t too sure what it is either. But the essential thing, people can have a lot of uric acid crystals in their body without having any symptoms at all. It seems to be endotoxin from an inflamed intestine, getting deposited on the crystals of uric acid causing the symptoms. CALLER: So we want to have urea, but not uric crystals? SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Uric acid. RAY PEAT: Urea is protective. Uric acid… CALLER: Okay. By eating a proper amount of protein is the good thing to do for that, you think. RAY PEAT: Yeah. CALLER: All right. Thank you very much. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Thank you for your call. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. We do have another caller on the line. So let’s take this next caller. Caller, where are you from? CALLER: [inaudible]. ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. What’s your question? CALLER: Okay. I’ve been – I’ve had water retention problems ever since I was pregnant with my first child.

00:48:26 > And I do have an underactive thyroid and they always tell me not to eat any salt. And then I went to a healer, like a few months ago, he told me that I should use this – it’s a salt [inaudible]. That’s what it is called. But, anyway, so I did, but I was still slowing up. And I'm on diuretic. ANDREW MURRAY: How much thyroid are you using? CALLER: How much what? ANDREW MURRAY: How much thyroid? Did you say you were using thyroid? CALLER: Oh, yeah. Thyroid [inaudible]. I think, like, I don’t know, 100 mgs or simply 1 gram. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Synthroid or…? CALLER: Levothyroxine. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Levo. ANDREW MURRAY: You said that you had water retention since your first child. How many year since? CALLER: Yes. My first pregnancy. That was 45 years ago. ANDREW MURRAY: 45 years ago. Dr. Peat?CALLER: So I’ve had it all these years and my mom had

00:49:28 > it and so did my grandmother. RAY PEAT: For quite a while, it’s been known that estrogen interferes with the conversion of levothyroxine into the active hormone. And that accounts for why women have about five times as much thyroid problems as men do because of the interference of estrogen with activating it. And so, illogically, doctors prescribe thyroxin to women without measuring the liver function of producing the active hormone, T3. CALLER: Yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever had tests for that. ANDREW MURRAY: It sounds like you’re not using the right kind of hormones. So the levothyroxine that you’re on, it’s probably being blocked, the conversion of it to the active hormone is more than likely getting blocked because of high estrogen. So you’d be better off using

00:50:30 > a T3 supplement which does not need you to perform the conversion. So you basically still – you’re probably still a low thyroid even though you’re taking a thyroid hormone because you’re not converting it. CALLER: Well, according to their tests, I'm normal now. ANDREW MURRAY: There’s a lot of controversy about the thyroid test, the TSH that’s used as a measurement is very poor science. And whilst your TSH may be in the range, you’ll probably find this on the higher end and actually your temperature and pulses would be much more indicative of your thyroid performance. CALLER: What do you mean by temperature, high or low? ANDREW MURRAY: Probably low temperature. And falling temperatures… CALLER: I tend to have a low temperature. ANDREW MURRAY: And then, obviously, things like stubborn weight gain, lack of energy, insomnia… CALLER: Very lack of energy. It’s gotten worse this year. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Low pulse. CALLER: It’s really bad. And I went to the doctor’s ward and they said they can’t find any problem. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Well, it’s probable, as just said, you’re not turning the

00:51:32 > thyroid you’re taking into an active form that your body can use. So it’s probably – that’s probably a base problem. And that’s very common to occur. CALLER: If I wanted to get that test, do I have to ask my doctor to do it for me? I have to request it? ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, you could. But like you said, you’re probably falling within – you fall within the reference range for supposedly normal, but actually your physiology and your symptoms are far from. CALLER: Yeah. ANDREW MURRAY: So I'm not too sure how relevant getting another blood test would be. I think more relevantly would be if you were to take a temperature and pulses – this is a little bit outside the scope of this radio show because we do have other callers calling, but if you wanted to, you can always contact us outside of business hours. I can discuss with you how you would take this and you can see it for yourself whether or not your metabolism is… CALLER: Okay. So I would go on the website then for that? ANDREW MURRAY: No, you can call us Monday through Friday. I will give a number out at the end of the show. CALLER: Okay. Okay, thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, you’re welcome. Okay, we have another caller on the air. So let’s take this caller. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Thank you for your call.

00:52:36 > ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. You’re on the air and where are you from? CALLER: Yes, hello. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, you’re on the air. Where are you from? CALLER: Yes, hello. I'm from Bellevue, Idaho. And my question is, drinking your own urine a good way to get urea? ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: I know quite a few people who have done it and seem to be very healthy. And it’s been practiced for about 3,000 or 4,000 years. But I don’t know how pleasant it – I think most people would prefer to use the purified chemical rather than their own urine. There’s a funny video of a man in India who is preparing products from cow urine. It’s a very common folk remedy around the world.

00:53:40 > ANDREW MURRAY: So there you go. If you don’t fancy the idea of consuming your own urine, you can use urea as a purified form. I'm not too sure if the caller is still there. Anyway. That was the answer. Thank you for your question, caller. I don’t know if you can hear us still. But appreciate you calling in. So, yeah, there’s six minutes still. If anybody wants to get a quick question in, they’re welcome. 923-3911 if you’re in the area or the 1-800 number is 1-800-KMUD-RAD. So, Dr. Peat, let’s just quickly talk about psoriasis and urea and inflammatory bowel disease, given that there is a kind of parallel between psoriasis and inflammatory bowel disease in terms of the inflammation aspect of degenerative conditions and urea’s use in both psoriasis and possibly with inflammatory bowel disorder. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: And eczema. It’s used in… ANDREW MURRAY: And eczema, right. Because the science shows that

00:54:44 > urea actually blocks – sorry, I was thinking about tumor necrosis factor – that was it – and curcuma. So in turmeric, it blocks – the active compound, curcumin, blockstumor necrosis factor and that is implicated in a lot of inflammatory conditions of which skin disorders and inflammatory bowel disease could be exacerbated or even caused by. Do you have any…? RAY PEAT: Well, one thing to consider when you have both bowel and skin symptoms is that the bowel is actually causing or contributing to the skin problem and eliminating gluten, for example. Sometimes there is both the bowel and skin problem because some of the same enzymes are activated by inflammation that cause the premature hardening and flakiness of the skin in psoriasis. That same process

00:55:46 > is activated by gluten and other inflammation producing agents in the intestine. The process of psoriasis is an accelerated cell division which is probably caused by the over-hydration and possibly lack of the right balance of estrogen, progesterone and thyroid and maybe a deficiency of Vitamin A which is the restraining influence. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Or vitamin D, right? RAY PEAT: Yeah, both vitamin D and A can restrain the rate of multiplication. And besides having a very fast cell division in psoriasis, it divides quickly few times and then prematurely ages and collapses into the flaky, corny, dry condition. And

urea has been demonstrated to delay or prevent that premature hardening process by governing the expression of the genes, so that the senility producing proteins aren’t produced so early. And keeping the cell in a vital state longer and delaying the – both the replication and the premature aging. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: So it sounds like urea can be injected or doctors are injecting it into cancer cells. It can be injected…