Herb Doctors: Mitochondria, GABA, Herbs, And More

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > ANDREW MURRAY: Welcome to this evening’s Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name is Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: My name is Sarah Johannesen Murray. ANDREW MURRAY: For those of you who perhaps have never listened to the shows, they run every third Friday of the month from 7 PM till 8 PM. We have call in from 7:30 until 8’ o clock. And once again, we have our very special guest speaker who is full of information about current events as well as historically accurate, important past events. So that brings it into context for all of us. You are listening to KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. And from 7:30, sorry, until the end of the show, like I say, we’re asking callers to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s loose topic on stress, GABA systems, different herbs that combat stress in different ways, mitochondrial support, and Dr. Peat will be bringing his wisdom and his expertise in terms of mitochondrial activity and how that all plays in with the hormones and other substances like

00:01:02 > thyroid, progesterone, pregnenolone, etc. that all support the anti-inflammatory cascade, as it were, that battles the inflammation that most people are just constantly under attack with. We are going through a pledge drive this evening. So sorry for those people who perhaps waited, thinking it was starting at 7.It’s just started, just now. So it’s all good. So without this radio show, this kind of program would not be on the air. So to those people that are listening, there is a pledge drive going on. It’s basically a supported network of people, volunteers and donors that keep this radiostation independent and make just this kind of show possible because you are not going to hear too much of what we say and too much of what other people have to say in their various programming from regular broadcast. It’s not controlled mainstream media, folks. It’s the alternative. So please support it wherever and however you can. So like I said, this evening, Dr. Raymond

00:02:04 > Peat is joining is and hopefully he is with us on the VIP line. Are you there, Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: Yes, hi. ANDREW MURRAY: Thanks so much for joining us again and sharing your wisdom and giving your time as freely as you do. I really appreciate it. Thank you. As usual, I think it’s always very good to just outline your professional and academic background. So people who perhaps have never listened to the show or heard you even before can hear your background. And I know when they hear you speak, they know you know what you’re talking about, but if you can just say a little bit about your background and your past, that will be great, just to illuminate. RAY PEAT: Okay. After 10 or 15 years of working in language and literature, I shifted over to biology, and especially aging and metabolism reproduction, studying at the University of Oregon 1968 to 1972 for biology PhD. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So I know we’ve heard a lot about you in the past in terms of thyroid, your specialty with thyroid

00:03:06 > hormone, physiology, explaining the mechanisms by which you have come to see thyroid’s activity within the body as well as, like you mentioned, progesterone and pregnenolone and the aging – that is one of your specialties. In terms of what we are going to get into this evening with a loose connection to the topic of mitochondria and their job in the body, what they do, how they operate, what things decrease their activity, and how they are slowly deactivated and the substances that deactivate them over time with aging, I think can I just with GABA? There’s this compound called GABA. It’s an inhibitory neurotransmitter. And I know there’s some herbs that I’d like to link that to as we get on with this discussion about things that stimulate the nervous system, things that help it to relax and what that relaxation is as opposed to the excitotoxic effect of

00:04:08 > stress. So in terms of GABA, what do you – what do you want to say, Sarah? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Well, I just wanted to ask Dr. Peat if you can explain simply what the mitochondria is in the cell. I’ve been told it’s the powerhouse of the cell. And can you please explain that to our listeners in case people might not know what mitochondria is? RAY PEAT: That’s a good enough definition, I think. But there is a very stereotyped, text booky definition of it that it consists a certain kind of membrane and special enzymes and some DNA separate from the nucleus. And it handles various functions other than energy production, but steroid synthesisx is one that’s a very important function. It converts cholesterol to pregnenolone, progesterone, and those turn into all

00:05:10 > of these steroid hormones. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So is that why people when they age, their cholesterol goes up because their mitochondria isn’t as efficient in converting the cholesterol into those hormones? RAY PEAT: Yeah. And thyroid is the main hormone that activates the oxidative metabolism of mitochondrion. And so, if your thyroid is low, the mitochondria don’t pull in the cholesterol and turn it to pregnenolone. And the other co factor working with thyroid happens to be vitamin A. And protein in the blood carriesx thyroid and vitamin A on a single protein and delivers it to the mitochondria over there, like a factory with a conveyor belt bringing in the raw materials and the catalysts. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And that’s how they make the hormones because the cholesterol plus a vitamin A makes progesterone and…

00:06:12 > RAY PEAT: Yeah. The vitamin A is involved in steroid formation in not only the gonads and adrenals, but also in the brain and the skin. The skin and the brain are major steroid endocrine plants. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So every cell in our body has a mitochondria and does its job in that particular part of the body, but if don’t have adequate thyroid, then you won’t be getting adequate oxygen into that mitochondria and basic energy production of that cell and cellular function will be decreased. RAY PEAT: Yeah, red blood cells don’t have mitochondria. They depend on sugar for their energy, glucose. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Just quickly getting on to – I just caught on what you said. I know in the past you’ve always mentioned it and I think people who perhaps just have heard you speak and listen to you would begin to understand that the physiological

00:07:14 > explanations of membranes is pretty flawed. When I was studying – go ahead. RAY PEAT: That includes the textbook definition of what a mitochondrion is and how it works. They use the membrane and, what they call,the chemiosmotic hypothesis. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: And the membrane has to have certain kind of metaphysical properties. And if you look at a real cell oxidizing, it turns out that the outer surface of the cell has mitochondria-like properties. The same enzyme reactions using oxygen and consuming electrons happens right at the surface of the cell as well as in the mitochondrion. ANDREW MURRAY: So the whole supposition that the membrane is a cohesive barrier and it’s not fluid,

00:08:16 > it’s not dynamic, it’s very much a skin, which is the way I always understood – was told to understand, membranes… SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And with channels and… ANDREW MURRAY: And with channels and pumps and all the rest of it. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And what about all the organelles, is that completely bogus as well? RAY PEAT: They are suspected to be artifacts of fixation largely, but things are differentiated. But when you kill them and take out the water and harden them and slice them, things don’t look the way they did when they were alive. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So is there no way they can look at the cell while it’s alive? RAY PEAT: Yeah. People have done an atlas of the brain, for example, slicing the brain and freezing it and making pictures and then doing the standard fixation where you get a nice sharp image. Their size is tremendously different and

00:09:18 > the internal structure, of course, is different too. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Don’t the fixatives change the structure as well, though? RAY PEAT: Yeah. Harold Hill man is probably the person most famous for challenging conventional biology, saying that everything is an artifact of fixation. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: What about the live microscopy? RAY PEAT: Yeah. Where you use a fluorescent stain, for example, you can see very amazing things, things swirling around and doing things that are really parallel to the theoretical descriptions with – sometimes the structures seem to be more like a whirl wind wind than an organelle. In the 1940s, when radioactive isotopes became available, the whole idea

00:10:20 > of the barrier membrane was eliminated. Gilbert Ling reviews the history of that, but there is no barrier to sodium, for example. It’s in and out of the cell. ANDREW MURRAY: Because I was always told about the sodium-potassium ATPase which needed a molecule of ATP to pump in and pump out a molecule of sodium and potassium in return. RAY PEAT: Yeah. But if you take a hair, which is perfectly dead, and washout the minerals and then dip it in a blood serum or plasma, you get the same unequal distribution of the minerals, potassium inside and sodium outside. And it’s exactly the same principle as a water softener where you charge it with sodium and then it removes calcium from the hard water. A man named

00:11:22 > Miso [?] wrote a book on things including the physics of water softeners and he recognized Gilbert Ling’s work in biology as the best explanation for how a water softener works. The physics was so good in describing cells that even physicists recognized that it worked for something as common as water softener. But biologists just don’t like that way of looking at cells. It tends to leave out a lot of their favorite beliefs about genes and so on. ANDREW MURRAY: Is that where the word MISO [?] was coined from? RAY PEAT: No. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: [inaudible]. ANDREW MURRAY: All right. You’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor, KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From 7:30 till the end of the show at 8 o’clock, you are invited to call in with questions related or

00:12:24 > unrelated to this month's topic of mitochondria, energy production, and we are going to cover things like valerian and rhodiola, schisandra and ginseng as typical herbs that have plenty of scientific data and pharmacological data to support their effects in x supporting mitochondria and in energy production and mediating the negative effects of stress. The number, if you live in the area, is 923- 3911. If you are outside the area, the toll-free number which is 1-800-KMUD -RAD. Those people listening to us on the web, that toll-free number is a good number to call. If you have any questions either related or unrelated and Dr. Peat is joining us again this month. We are going through a pledge drive, folks. Those people who perhaps have just tuned in KMUD Garberville, 91.1 conducting one of our several pledge drives that go on through the year to raise finances to keep this great show on the air and to keep other shows on the air, not just this one. I didn’t mean this great show, but great shows

00:13:26 > on the air. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: This great station. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, this great station that actually brings out a lot of very alternative information to people that’s not mainstream. You probably won’t find this kind of stuff too many other places. So keep it alive because it’s rapidly disappearing in this country. Okay. So, Dr Peat, you mentioned that there was a single protein, which carries vitamin A and cholesterol. If you know the name of the protein, great. But, otherwise, do you know if there’s anything that would be supportive to that protein as it seems like a fairly key intermediary in that process. RAY PEAT: It’s the low-density lipoprotein that delivers cholesterol and then prealbumin or transthyretin which transports the thyroid and vitamin A. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Which is why it’d be so dangerous to have a low LDL which is what most doctors call the bad cholesterol, which is… RAY PEAT: It’s a good one because it brings us stuff to make progesterone out of. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, good. So, people, did you get that? Once again,

00:14:28 > it’s just another call to arm, as it were, that cholesterol was not the enemy. So the LDL cholesterol, which is always coined as the bad cholesterol, is actually the cholesterol that chaperones use, very important molecules, to enable things like steroid synthesis to occur. So without cholesterol, you’d be in bad shape. Another fact that I think – I just – I heard this coined not too long ago was that the brain's white matter is 95% cholesterol. So if cholesterol is not important, then why is the brain 95% cholesterol? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So that’s why they did that study in older people who had low cholesterol were much more prone to dementia. ANDREW MURRAY: And, Dr. Peat, just to let people know again, you always advocate that cholesterol should be between 180 and 200. That’s quite healthy. And also after 50 years of age, you should be slightly over 200. RAY PEAT: Yeah. According to the Framingham study, people over 50 who weren’t above 200 in their cholesterol were more likely to have dementia.

00:15:30 > ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, okay. Alright, so let’s move on to some of those things that have been written about and recorded and pharmacology has been provided and scientific background has been explained for the action of. But I know that you probably have some other ways of tying in what perhaps we were taught when we were studying how these things work. So, perhaps, valerian root is one of those herbs that a lot of people would have used, would have heard about and have tried and certainly would have gotten benefits for either insomnia or anxiety as a mild sedative. And I was always told that its main attribute was that it provided GABA and prevented the breakdown. So the valerenic acid was actually responsible for inhibiting the breakdown of GABA as well. What do you know about GABA as a neurotransmitter and how do you feel about valerian’s use being warranted, given what I have said?

00:16:32 > RAY PEAT: I think valerian also increases the activity of the enzyme that converts the excitatory glutamic acid into the inhibitory GABA. So it does just about everything needed to protect the brain, increasing GABA and the effect of GABA. And GABA is – the system called the GABA receptor is probably the most complex bunch of proteins that has the name receptor. Many different things affected in different ways. Valerian or valium, the specific molecule, apparently binds to it in a way similar to GABA and in a slightly different way than progesterone,

00:17:34 > pregnenolone, and probably the androgens ofx some types. And even carbon dioxide probably is involved inx binding in some way near this so-called receptor, stabilizing the whole system of proteins to turn off the excitatory process in the cell. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. It’sa very – excitation, I think, when people hear the word, we need to support its definition. Excitatory is a very wasteful situational state to be in, isn’t it, in terms of the cell being excited. I think for very short-term activity, that is not a problem, but the excitation, in general, when it’s longer-term, is actually very detrimental to the cell. RAY PEAT: Yeah, that’s what causes brain fatigue if you stay awake too long. And if you don’t have a good supply of glucose producing

00:18:36 > carbon dioxide, for example, you more quickly get into the fatigued state. The glucose, one of its functions is actually to substantially contribute to the formation of GABA, a part of glucose molecule that is involved in the synthesis, but also the carbon dioxide stabilizes it. And when glutamic acid is converted into GABA, it also releases carbon dioxide that helps with the inhibitory process. So oxidative metabolism in the brain is doing many things, producing GABA and progesterone, pregnenolone, carbon dioxide and keeping down the excitatory things – lactic acid, nitric oxide,

00:19:38 > and the glutamic acid and ammonia, for example. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Well, it’s estimated that 10% of people respond to valerian in the opposite way that you would want them to and they actually get excited from taking valerian, almost like cats do when they get around it. Can you possibly explain why that might be happening? RAY PEAT: No, not at all. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. Because there are some people that definitely give feedback of, it woke me up, it didn’t help me sleep and relax, actually had the opposite effect. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Yeah, stimulated me. It made me feel jittery. ANDREW MURRAY: Anyway. All right, not a big deal. Okay. So I wanted also to bring out that St. John’s wort is another herb that’s positive to be a re uptake inhibitor of GABA and that compound was shown to be hyperforin, which is one of the actives that are sometimes standardized in terms of making a standardized extractor, St. John’s.

00:20:40 > And then I also found some evidence here to show that lemon balm was shown to be a GABA transaminase inhibitor, so that it blocks the enzyme, GABA transaminase, which converts GABA to a compound called succinic semialdehyde and glutamate. So all of these reactions are reversible for very obvious reasons and the body, obviously, has a very fine tune in order to keep this whole homeostasis running properly and preventing over- excitation and over-restfulness, somnambulance almost, in some ways. I did read the article on mitochondrial disease. There is a known syndrome of it and one of its main downside is, obviously – it’s a complete downside having the syndrome, but one of the main downsides is the kind of somnambulance that you get with it, of people just either getting seizures and just being completely

00:21:42 > unable to perform. In terms of keeping that balance between the GABA ergic side of keeping things stable and calm, are we even to think of that as being the optimum state and that actually it’s like x thyroid, where thyroid itself is not at all a stimulant, it actually helps you relax, helps the cell repolarize and re-energize its r esting potential? RAY PEAT: I call that the high-energy resting state in which the cells, all through the body, especially in the brain, have so much energy that they’re ready to do anything. But when you get very fatigued, they lack the energy needed to replenish that work-ready condition. And so, they are in sort of a high percentage sensitive,

00:22:44 > agitated condition. Their voltage – so-called resting voltage goes very low and they stay in a more or less constantly excited, but unable-to-work condition. And magnesium is one of the things that helps to restore the relaxed state. Thyroid helps you to retain magnesium. Magnesium stabilizes the high-energy ATP molecule. And without thyroid, you can’t make that very quickly. And so,if you have adequate thyroid -producing oxidative energy and producing ATP, that causes the cell to retain magnesium. And that complex of things holds the cell in a ready-to-work state, with lots of reserve energy.

00:23:46 > Simply a magnesium deficiency will cause seizures, insomnia, inflammation, everything that a lack of energy leads to. ANDREW MURRAY: So do you think then it’s very more important to – and I am saying this because I understand this is the way, but just for our listeners, to have small amounts of sugars, foods regularly, so that your body's energy supply is constantly stocked rather than x going in 6 hours or more without food and then having a loaded meal in terms of keeping mitochondria as happy as possible rather than alloing them to get depleted to a point where they’re no longer really able to bounce back or for you to be able to pick up again relatively quickly. RAY PEAT: And the B vitamins are essential for using oxygen efficiently in the mitochondria.

00:24:48 > ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: Vitamin B1, biotin, B2. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, alright. So what about melatonin, let’s move on to melatonin as a substance. I’ve read quite a few articles, some of which have been very disturbing, I must admit, and we’ll get into that in a little bit. But I know most of the advertising for melatonin is very pro-sleeping, pro-relaxing, they don’t say anything dangerous about it. It’s naturally produced. It is found in different products from foods, liquids and foodstuff. So it’sa fairly ubiquitous chemical. It, obviously, has a very specific function. It really does work physiologically and is very important, but what’s your impression of melatonin in terms of its use and whether or not you feel comfortable around it? RAY PEAT: Well, I think the good side of it is that in the fatigued state

00:25:50 > of the brain, the excitatory de-energized condition, nitric oxide rises and starts a vicious circle, in which it activates acetylcholine, which activates nitric oxide synthesis and it rises and can keep you awake. And melatonin is effective at turning off that cycle. So when your brain is in a bad fatigued state, x melatonin can protect it by getting down the nitric oxide and excitation. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: But wouldn’t be like in a small dose or was it different for every patient? RAY PEAT: Yeah. one publication refers to the physiological dose, which would be equivalent in an average-sized adult to 5 mcg per body, an ultra-small amount would

00:26:52 > replenish your whole body. Others have measured it as up to maybe 2 or 3 mg in the whole body as the physiological concentration. ANDREW MURRAY: Wow. RAY PEAT: So when a person takes 10 mg, for sure, it will put them to sleep. But it probably is doing lots of other things. And in the antioxidant experiments or the radiation protection experiments, they’ve used something like a 1000 or maybe a million times the concentration that exists physiologically. So it can do amazing things like protect you against gamma rays. But if you that more than during or shortly after the exposure, the outcome might have unexpected consequences. It was only in the later 1990s when the material became

00:27:54 > very cheap, widely sold that all of this amazing stuff about being anticancer, anti-stress, anti-inflammatory, tissue protecting against everything, all of these studies came out by the thousands. But when I was in graduate school, it wasn’t even certain that melatonin was the main pineal hormone. And what was known was that the pineal extract had very specific effects that imitated night time and winter. And in the winter, all animals from fish, turtles, lizards, rats, sheep, and so on, everyone’s reproductive system shrinks away during the

00:28:56 > winter. Some species can manage to reproduce in the winter, but in general it’s a principle that not only the gonads regress, but the thymus gland regresses in all of these different types of animals. And the thymus ataviar [?] involution during the winter strongly affects the way the immune system works. And that’s part of why people are more susceptible to infections during the winter. ANDREW MURRAY: There you go. RAY PEAT: And this involution of both the reproductive plans and the immune thymus gland, this has a lots of behavioral consequences Everyone knows about the seasonal affective disorder or winter sickness, in which depression and weight gain become so common

00:29:58 > during the winter, one night. And melatonin is the main thing that causes involution of the thymus gland and gonads. The original studies were done with extracts of the pineal gland, but you get effectively the same thing just with melatonin. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So what about different parts of the world, like if someone was in Hawaii? RAY PEAT: Yeah. The seasonal changes don’t exist near the equator. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So their thymus and… RAY PEAT: Yeah. You don’t have the winter sickness or winter immune disturbance. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. You’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor, KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From now until 8 o’clock, callers are invited to call in with questions, either related to what we’ve been talking about so far from GABA to melatonin to the various mitochondrial issues. Number here is 923

00:31:00 > -3911 or 1-800 KMUD-RAD. That’s 1-800-568- 3723. Okay. Dr. Peat, I had some articles that I was reading this afternoon, whilst putting this together to see if this was going to be something that we were going to be supporting or helping people discourage the use of because I know melatonin’s use along with serotonin. It’s very popular, but not always a good thing. I did read the papers. And again, there was conflicting information on PubMed. Some of the information was saying, for example, that melatonin suppresses tumor aerobic metabolism, which is the kind of Warburg effect that Dr. Warburg described. And some of them said that melatonin was actually pro -cancerous. How do you see that? RAY PEAT: Some of that varies with the variety of mouse that they’re using, for example. In some studies, they’ve been planted an extra pineal gland

00:32:02 > or used melatonin. Sometimes it decreases tumor, sometimes it increases them. The effect on the immune system partly depends on the dose. And when you’re using a thousand- fold variation in doses, that’s the first thing you have to think of… ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. RAY PEAT: …what’s actually happening physiologically in the normal range. And a lot of studies are getting anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects, but at least two groups, one in China and one in Denver, are seeing very clear pro-inflammatory effects from a physiological amount of melatonin. ANDREW MURRAY: There you go. Okay, so… SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Yeah. It doesn’t seem like you’d want to be taking something that triggers the

00:33:04 > wintertime response. RAY PEAT: Yeah. That’s what I’ve always. In our hamster lab, we noticed that even though the laboratory was supposedly well insulated and temperature controlled and had a 12-hour light and dark cycle, the hamsters, during the winter, had essentially no thymus gland and that was one of the things that started me thinking about the potential risk of changing your whole endocrine system byx supplementing something like that. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. We have a caller on the air. So let’s take this first caller. So, caller, where are you from? You’re on the air. You’re on the air. I think your engineer is waving around. I'm not too sure what’s going on. We have a caller on the air, though. Go ahead.

00:34:06 > FEMALE SPEAKER: Caller, you are on. You can speak up. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So someone needs to find out how to get that going because we do have a caller, but they are not coming through at the moment. Okay. Well, until we get this caller back, let’s just ask you about the – I think you did mention this earlier on, but just to reiterate again, I had read some information about melatonin potentially helping in radiation oncology treatments where people get radiotherapy. What do you think about that in terms of its negative effects that we’ve heard about? Actually, just hold it before we going any further. Let’s take this caller, whilst they are on the air. Let’s take them. Where are you from, caller? Okay. Well, they’re getting messed around here. Might be some is to do with the pledge drive and all the calls coming into pour money into the studio to keep us going. Okay.

00:35:08 > So, Dr. Peat, what do you think about the use of melatonin in oncology and radiotherapy perhaps? RAY PEAT: If you’re found to have the radiation… ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. RAY PEAT: I think the very large doses of melatonin are probably very protective against that damaging effect. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. RAY PEAT: But the trouble with using it for treating tumors is that you can kill off all of the actual bulk cells of the tumor, which are really defective and weak cancer cells that are in the normal tumors. They’re being replaced very quickly. And when you kill them off, you irritate the region where the tumor was and stimulate that region's ability to recruit new repair cells. And those cells zoom into

00:36:10 > the irradiated area and recreate the tumor because you haven’t cured the organism’s problem. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. Because it is a very – this is the last word on melatonin. And the only reason I was asking for is use in radiotherapy, but that is potently antioxidant. And like you said, potentially for what it is and what it’s capable of, structurally, it’s very good at mopping up free radical damage causing compounds. So I think that was some of the reason for the research that was done on it. Okay. Well, let’s move on to – I’ve got a few other things I wanted to ask you about. And I know you know – as usual, you know plenty about it. I didn’t even know that you had looked at it, but I know I had spoken to awhile back here and you mentioned what you had known. So Rhodiola rosea is a Crassula, so that kind of fleshy – thick fleshy leaved, succulent type of plant.

00:37:12 > I didn’t realize that it’s actually been used for about 3,500 years. It was first mentioned 13th century BC and in the Greek Bronze Age. And then there was documentation – plenty of documentation about the Vikings using it to enhance physical strength and endurance. And then, obviously, lots of Chinese data about the emperor sending expeditions to Siberia to bring back this golden root, which is its common name, for medical preparations. And then I know we talked about adaptogens in the past. So this is another of those kind of golden adaptogens, was discovered in ’47. The term adaptogen by the Russian scientist Nikolai Lazarev who coined that,in fact. And then Dr. Lazarev was also a mentor of Dr. Breckmanwho conducted extensive research on adaptogenic herbs. So Rhodiola rosea in terms of it being an adaptogen, being a

00:38:14 > physical enhancement, a cognitive enhancer, anticancer. Do you know much about rhodiola and perhaps how you’d see that being supportive in terms of mitochondrial protection or anti-stress? RAY PEAT: Yeah. I happen to be studying the progesterone family of steroids around the same time I was running into Ginseng and Rhodiola research. And Hans Selye had the concept of catatoxic steroids, he called them. ANDREW MURRAY: Catatoxic? RAY PEAT: Catatoxic. They destroyed the toxin effect. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: And it isn’t exactly the same as detoxifying. But they protect the organism by blocking the effect of a toxin. And I think that’s one of the effects of the

00:39:16 > adaptogens. They have some steroids that are analogous to progesterone and testosterone in that catatoxic or stress blocking effect. And a Russian heart researcher, Felix Mayerson [?] was continuing Hans Selye’s concept of stress and adapting to stress and applying it on the mitochondrial level, which Hans Selye never really focused very much on. But Mayerson’s idea was that we have many layers of stress -limiting signals and hormones and processes and it happens that the steroids are one major

00:40:18 > stress-limiting system where cortisol and serotonin and nitric oxide and estrogen activate the short-term stress reactions that can stimulate a brief defense. If those continue, they destroy the organism, so you need the stress-ending process and that’s where the progesterone, testosterone, pregnenolone come in and things that turn off the nitric oxide and serotonin and estrogen. And it happens that these plants not only have the steroid level of stress-limiting factors, but many other types of substances, the polyphenols and flavonoids, for example, specifically turn off nitric oxide production and limit the

00:41:20 > excitatory serotonin pathway, for example, which turns on cortisol. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: I want to ask you about that in relation to red compounds too. But we do have a caller on the air. ANDREW MURRAY: Let’s try again. The caller, you are on the air. Where are you from? Third time lucky? CALLER: San Francisco, California. ANDREW MURRAY: San Francisco, California. Welcome to the show. What is your question for Dr. Peat? CALLER: Hi, Dr. Peat. I wanted to know what causes tooth decay and how do you reverse it? RAY PEAT: What causes what? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Tooth decay. RAY PEAT: I think it’s stress related. There is one type of cavity that starts with a dark area – I think the stress one starts with a white area rather than the usual dark area and comes on very fast with the mobilization of calcium from the dentin

00:42:22 > under the influence of stress. Another kind is related to stress starting from the outside, with the mobilization of calcium because of imbalances and pro-inflammatory factors in the saliva. So the basic thing is to keep your energy up and stress low, so that you don’t have either harmful saliva or an internal anti- calcium system. And vitamin D and vitamin K are very important for putting calcium, keeping it in the hard tissue. Serotonin, in the last three or four years, has been found to be a major calcium disruptor in the bones and teeth as well.

00:43:24 > So it’s really a matter of your total systemic health more than just what happens in your mouth. CALLER: Thank you very much. ANDREW MURRAY: Thank you for your call, caller. Okay. Well, I guess,we have time if it’s 8 minutes to 8. Let’s just see – we’ll let people know anyway. Otherwise, we’ll carry on here for the next 8 minutes. But if you are in the area, the number is 923-3911. Or if you are outside the area, there is a toll-free number, 1-800 KMUD-RAD or 1-800-568- 3723.So we’ve got about 5 minutes or so before we need to wrap up. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So, Dr. Peat, I wanted to ask you about hypericin, t he red oil from St. John's wort that you can make. I remember you saying something to me about red compounds are very antioxidant and x protective. RAY PEAT: Yeah. That is a big polycyclic molecule. The reason it is red is

00:44:26 > the electrons resonate and absorb a lot of light and that makes it analogous to the molecules such as in cascara, emodin or in aloe and in thex tetracycline antibiotics and the tricyclic antidepressants, anti- serotonin, antihistamine agent. ANDREW MURRAY: How about Pau D'arco that’s a very dark rootand Catuaba bark is a… RAY PEAT: Yeah, exactly. `That’s the same type of polycyclic molecule. I think it’s analogous to the stabilizing multi-ring steroid molecules. They have a kind of geometric stabilizing action on the microstructure of the cell, as well as the electronic withdrawing effect. When a cell is stressed and its

00:45:28 > voltage goes down, the local electrons, in effect, are concentrated. They become very active and reduce or attack molecules that they shouldn’t be acting on. When you don’t have enough oxygen, you get loose electrons that cause mischief all through the cell. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: That’s what we’d term free radical reaction? RAY PEAT: Yeah. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Now, ubiquinone is another one of those structural molecules similar to the structures that are formed by the compounds that give those dark red pigments. Ubiquinone. And then I was going to ask you about BioPQQ, which seems to be the latest kid on the block in terms of the most potent antioxidant and mitochondrial stimulator going. It’s kind of another form of ubiquinone.

00:46:32 > RAY PEAT: Yeah. I am not sure how important it is to have the most potent antioxidant. ANDREW MURRAY: Well, in marketing, it’s very important. RAY PEAT: Yeah. The vitamin K happens to stabilize ubiquinone. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. RAY PEAT: And all of these things work in a system. So when you are using vitamin C, it is in an oxidized form that keeps vitamin E in the right condition. And these and progesterone keep ubiquinone and vitamin K in the right system. It’s a much more organized system on the small molecule level than the big molecule people usually recognize. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. All right. So B vitamins are – very quickly here. In terms of mitochondria,I know we’ve mentioned here Coenzyme Q10, ubiquinone and BioPQQ, if people want to take a look at that and whatever... SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Doesn’t CoQ10

00:47:34 > stabilize the vitamin K? RAY PEAT: They work together, yeah. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. RAY PEAT: Yeah, with the mitochondrion. ANDREW MURRAY: So the B vitamins are also very important in terms of electronic stability. RAY PEAT: Yeah. Keeping the cell pretty free of x lactate because the lactate represents the shift towards loose electrons that get in trouble. ANDREW MURRAY: Right. Okay. And then… SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Buffalo liver pate for your B vitamins. ANDREW MURRAY: We do like Buffalo liver pate, by the way. And then the antioxidants, obviously, things like vitamin C and vitamin E. We’ve already mentioned those in plenty of different instances where they’re important. Well, Dr. Peat, thank you so much for joining us. I know we got one caller. I think it probably – I'm not too sure why. Sometimes there’s lots, sometimes there’s not many. But, anyway, I know the show is going to get listened to on the web and on the audio archives and I know lots of people call me later. I get several weeks or months even, people telling me how they listen to this in that show, so it’s

00:48:36 > recorded there for future history as long as our species exists, put it that way. So thanks so much for your time, Dr. Peat. RAY PEAT: Okay, thank you. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Thank you. Good night. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So for those people who’ve found the show this evening for the first time, Dr. Raymond Peat has got a wealth of information on his website. That is www. raypeat.com, plenty of scholarly articles, fully referenced. He is always writing articles. So usually every month, he produces a newsletter. I am not too sure how subscription to that is going. I think, at one point, he stopped it because it was getting out of control. But I'm not too – people should definitely ask him if it’s still available. Don’t take my word for it. I think things may have improved a little bit. I know he’s a verybusy person. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Just check his website. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, just check his website. Okay. And we can be also be reached toll-free 1-888-WBM-HERB Monday through Friday, 9 to 5.And my name is Andrew Murray. Until the third Friday of next month, have a good night. My name is Sarah Johannesen Murray and good night. And before – I want to make

sure that we gave Ray Peat’s website, www.raypeat.com. And our website is www.westernbotanical SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: medicine.com. ANDREW MURRAY: Alright. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Thank you for listening. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, have a good night.