Herb Doctors: The Metabolism Of Cancer

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > ANDREW MURRAY: Well, once again welcome to this month’s third Friday of the month radio show, Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name is ANDREW MURRAY: Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: My name is SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Sarah Johannesen Murray. ANDREW MURRAY: For those of you who perhaps have never listened to this show, say they every third Friday of the month from 7:00 till 8:00 PM. We're both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England, graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. We run a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and recommend dietary supplements, nutritional counseling and alternative approach to the management of various different conditions. You're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. And from 7:30 until the end of this show at 8 o’clock you're invited to call in either with questions related to or unrelated to tonight's topic of the metabolism of cancer.

00:01:02 > We're very pleased to have Dr. Raymond Peat with us once more, and this month's topic is actually based on his newsletter. The newsletter he brought out back in May, it was another introduction to cancer metabolism but if I remember rightly the Paranoia versus trustanoia. It was a interesting concept where most people trust mainstream medicine to do the right, choose wisely and find your information out from alternative sources. I think that alternative word is another very good starting point for tonight’s show. It is the drive that the radio show is having to basically keep running. Free speech radio and independent radio stations are really not very common in America anymore. Radio shows are generally getting taken

00:02:04 > over, becoming more and more mainstream, but obviously free speech is still alive and again that's our constitutional First Amendment right. So it’s a very precious thing to have, free speech ad on the airways whether it’s locally here or broad across the nation on the internet or other radio stations that would carry this show. It's a very precious commodity. So you know that when free speech starts to become suppressed, you know the government are really not what you want in power. I would say no more about that but the constitutional amendment, First Amendment, is a very strong and fundamental right that we all have as American citizens to be able to free to choose what it is rather than be told that this is what you're going to get. So the Ask Your Herb Doctor show is definitely one of those radio programs that brings you an alternative to the mainstream narrative of what you're going to hear from mainstream

00:03:06 > science and doctors. And Dr. Raymond Peat fortunately is a wealth of information very alternative, definitely outside the box thinking like so many of the great scientists that he quotes during his work from Szent- Györgyi to Gilbert Ling to Mae- Wan Ho and many, many others that we've mentioned over several years now probably going on eight years that we've been delighted to have Dr. Peat sharing his wisdom with us. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And if you listen to commercial radio now and then, you know what media consolidation means. It's cookie-cutter programming and 15 to 20 minutes of every hour, they are hounding new device stuff. KMUD is different, completely different and you know why, because it's independent, community-based community radio funded by the community and our only responsibility is to you, the listener. So please support KMUD. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, Dr. Peat. Is Dr. Peat with us? RAY PEAT: Yes. ANDREW MURRAY: Hi, Dr. Peat. RAY PEAT: Hi. ANDREW MURRAY: Well, thanks so much for joining us. I think what I wanted to do was just basically

00:04:08 > describe an outline of what has happened in the science which has very much derailed some very good research that was done that perhaps didn't go along with the corporate collectivistic background controllers, if you like, from the Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations. I know couple of months back we had the subject and very much what was bought out was that the institution has institutionalized medicine to the point where good science becomes largely ignored or demonized. I think that's very true to say, and it's not just scared tactics. It's a very much true that alternative medical doctors get hounded out of medicine. They have to leave the country and go abroad where they can continue to practice because in this country there is quite a powerful suppression of alternative

00:05:10 > ideas. So I think without me probably carrying on too much more, I think just starting with Otto Warburg, if you would outline perhaps the history of oxidative metabolism which Frederick William Koch, Frederick Koch, through Otto Warburg and Albert Szent-Györgyi elucidated and how that really should have been the direction that medicine if it really wanted to help people with cancer should have gone in, but which through various powerful lobbying groups and the estrogen industry etcetera have derailed it and it's become very much a dogmatic destructive cidal type of approach like bactericides or virucides is a kind of cancericidal approach to killing cancer cells with chemotherapy, radiotherapy and all the other targeted programs that basically destroy the organism rather than help it. So would you be able to give an

00:06:12 > outline of metabolism as seen through the eyes of these great scientists who really were on to something? RAY PEAT: Yeah, starting in 1900, the idea of electrons in molecules was really just being explored. It was about 1930/ 35 when mainstream chemists started accepting that there was such a thing as a free radical. But in 1900, Moses Gomberg at the University of Michigan had produced a stable free radical which with a free but fairly unreactive electron produced a deep purple color with a very small amount of the molecule in solution. And this started the other chemists thinking about

00:07:14 > what produces color in molecules. And over the next four or five years, several chemists were theorizing about mobile electrons in molecules like benzoquinone. And these were really at the centre of mainstream chemistry but even the average university chemist wasn't up to date on the theories of electrons. It was only in 1916 that Gilbert Lewis gave his theory of electron bonding and then Niels Bohr, I think it was 1921, described his picture of how electrons orbit around molecules. And then several years later Linus Pauling

00:08:16 > gave a more detailed description of how electrons work in chemical bonds. So the very best biochemists were just getting started around 1935 thinking about electrons and biologists and medical doctors couldn't imagine how electrons could have anything to do with the life process. So the process that is involved in oxidation is the movement of electrons from a fuel such as sugar or fat to oxygen and in the process it's there is a lot of extractable energy in some form. And when the biologists finally admitted that electrons

00:09:18 > had to be explained somehow, they wanted to compartmentalize how the energy is used in moving from glucose or fat onto oxygen. And so they invented little machines that would take sort of a quantum of energy out of that moving electron and attach it to various little machines which they called pumps or motors and so on and explained muscle contraction and secretion and all processes in this very primitive concept of biological energy, where the actual process is a flow, a streaming process, there is no standing still for the electron that the cell dies if it isn't constantly moving

00:10:20 > the electrons from fuel to oxygen. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So this is a process that's going on every breath we take and every single cell in our body is moving these electrons from sugar or fat to oxygen? RAY PEAT: Yeah, and when you try to measure the electrical energy of a cell, you stick a needle in for example to measure the voltage and people have sort of a standing static picture of the cell in which it’s a membrane and inside there are statistically randomized molecules carrying electrons and so they think of it as effectively a bag of electrons which they are measuring. What they are doing is disrupting this intricate constant flow from fuel to oxygen

00:11:22 > and they are measuring an injured cell. Every time they try to stop it to fit their model, they are destroying some cell process. And in the 1940s, Szent-Györgyi published some of his work with oxidative processes in muscle and how energy is used. And he was the one who discovered that ATP literally makes muscle contract. He extracted muscle and used various simplified preparations to show that simply adding ATP made the muscle move and he was thinking of something electronic going on related to oxidation and fuel use and so on. But he found that the contracted muscle

00:12:24 > in the presence of ATP didn't break down the ATP molecule but ATP causes muscle to contract without changing its RAY PEAT: bond structure. ANDREW MURRAY: Now this is very interesting folks. When you hear this, I don't want to try too much. So muscle contraction can occur in the absence of the breakdown of ATP which is not what I was taught when I was at school. So anyway yes, most people that listen to what you just said now, my remember that the classic description is ATP is reduced to ADP and AMP and that release of that phosphate group is what actually drives the muscle but Dr. Peat you’re saying that that is not the way it is. RAY PEAT: Yeah, when I was in graduate school, the muscle biologists all over the world were saying that ATP has a high-energy bond of 11 or 14 kilocalories per mole and it's that energy

00:13:26 > that can be used to explain little muscles – motors in the muscles that cause movement. Without that high energy it would be impossible to explain their motors. But meanwhile Gilbert Ling had – I think he probably read Szent-Györgyi too and was aware that ATP didn't have to break down to release energy. He pointed out that the energy of the whole molecule of ATP sticking to the protein of the muscle has an energy of stickiness or absorption energy of 21 kilo calories per mole, twice as much as the hypothetical bond energy and that explains quite mix of protein change without having breakdown simply. The relationship between the

00:14:28 > molecules shifts the whole structure. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, and this is very much the kind of holistic alternative approach to science and to biology that enables these people that are doing this to see the whole thing is confluent and it’s constant, like you said electrons don't stop. They are constantly moving. They are constantly in action and that is life right there when molecules are being produced and cells are being signaled and communication is happening. It all involves energy and I know you are a big advocate of supporting thyroid function because that ultimately is a very big driver of metabolism as is mitochondrial ANDREW MURRAY: function. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And the energy of the cell. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, and that all of these is – we are all very much energetic living beings. We are not static. And actually a lot of what we’ll perhaps get into later on here with cancer metabolism being a very aberrant form of that kind of metabolism which is much more

00:15:30 > destructive and very negative as very much opposed to regular life which is productive and energetic and that high energy stay is what actually keeps us alive and healthy and allows our immune systems to get on top of spontaneous cancers because they know they do arise all the time and it's only in those lowered energetic states where people can actually produce a cancer that starts to take them out and it's all the negative lactic acid production etcetera from tumors that contributes in the carbon monoxide. We’ll get into that later on RAY PEAT: but. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: But we are not talking about like the high adrenaline, that type of energy. We are talking about energy from a cell functioning properly and having enough thyroid which basically means the cell has enough oxygen and it's a very calm state but yourselves have a lot of energy in that calm state. ANDREW MURRAY: All right, you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM and from 7:30 until the end of this show, callers are welcome to call in with questions either related

00:16:32 > to this month's topic of the metabolism of cancer. And toll-free number if you live outside the area, there is an 800 number which is 800- KMUD-RAD. So that’s 800-568- 3723 or if you’re in the area code, the number is 923-3911. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Actually Michael said that he didn’t SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: think that… MICHAEL: I thought that – well, if you’ve been calling this show from Missouri, call whatever number you’ve been using but I was under the impression that 800 number didn’t work out of California but I could be totally wrong. ANDREW MURRAY: I didn’t know that. Thanks for telling me. MICHAEL: Anyway, I mean we’re broken the 800 numbers and the free the 800 number costs us, so you might as well have it on MICHAEL: your phone bill anyway. ANDREW MURRAY: All right, there ANDREW MURRAY: you go. MICHAEL: Okay, so ANDREW MURRAY: yes, all right somebody was going to come in at one SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Point. We’re going to do that at 7:25. ANDREW MURRAY: We’re doing at 7:25, okay, all right. So Dr. Peat getting back to this kind of energetic state of the cell, that's probably a good point at which you understand how cancer can arise,

00:17:34 > how it can be allowed to be outside the body's normal control and how that energetic state, I won't call it energetic, perhaps we called it excited, depleted state, should best be understood as a way to understand ANDREW MURRAY: cancer? RAY PEAT: In the 1920s at the time Warburg was developing his idea of oxidation, a man in England David Keilin was working on another side of oxidation with the cytochromes and he found that when an insect flight muscle or a bird flight muscle, very energetic muscle, when it was contracting and highly stimulated, the pigment that he was studying disappeared showing that there was no oxygen present. The extreme activity had consumed

00:18:36 > all of the oxygen momentarily and shifted the cell and those pigments into a reduced state of excess electrons. And so this was – Szent-Györgyi and Keilin were simultaneously working on the ideas that William Frederick Koch at the University of Michigan had developed independently that it's the flow of electrons through the system to oxygen which has to be continuous and when something over- stimulates or irritates an area, the idea of irritation and carcinogenic smoke and so on was already known, and the irritating effect of estrogen for example was already known. So

00:19:38 > the idea of excitation exhausting the tissue oxygen was at the center of the idea of what cancer is. Warburg described his thought at that time as the cancer has a defect in respiration which makes it like the Pasteur Effect which was what Pasteur had seen in yeast was that oxygen normally causes the yeast to stop fermenting, to stop producing lactic acid or ethanol in the case of beer. But Szent- Györgyi said there is something wrong with the system that prevents cancer from even in the presence of oxygen from being able to turn off that excitatory process that produces lactic

00:20:40 > acid. So there is something keeping the cell in the excited state and that's where the details have been developed now over the last 90 years since Warburg expressed that idea of what are the things that can turn of the excitation, the excess of stimulation and let the oxygen which can be present, let the oxygen do its work to turn off the lactic acid ANDREW MURRAY: production. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So it's a form of energy production the body has is like a backup mechanism when it's not using oxygen properly then it converts to using. RAY PEAT: Sugar. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Sugar and it's inefficient and it's wasteful and overexcites the cell. Is that – I'm just trying to understand this myself and also put it into some little bit more understandable SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: terms for our listeners. RAY PEAT: Yeah, when it's either

00:21:42 > deficient in oxygen or over-stimulated. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So that it used up all the oxygen because it was over-stimulated. RAY PEAT: Yeah, so it's the same thing as suffocating or being over-stimulating. There is no oxygen to turn off the production of lactic acid and then lactic acid itself is an irritant stimulant. It shifts the cell away from the use of oxygen towards the production of more lactic acid. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So it's like a vicious cycle. Here we are going to pause you for a moment here Dr. Peat while we have Jordan come in and we are going to talk about what a wonderful radio station this is. It's an oasis of diversity and it’s oasis amid the sameness of the commercial media landscapes. We provide essential nourishment for your mind and soul with our amazing variety of programs. JORDAN: Wow, what a show tonight, very

00:22:44 > scientific. No one like Dr. Peat. He really gives you the info but some real science for tonight. You really got to pay attention. But I just want to thank you guys for coming in and doing your show every month. I want to thank all the talk show hosts and I want you, dear listener, to thank the talk show host by calling in your support to 707-923-3911. We've got some phone answers out there who’d really like you to keeping busy. And I loved Andrew, your opening remarks about the bill of rights, the First Amendment and how if you don't use our rights, we lose our rights. ANDREW MURRAY: Absolutely. The government need to hear ANDREW MURRAY: that from us. JORDAN: Yeah, and your comment earlier out in the hall about that's what it's all about, this is free speech radio. There is 25 different viewpoints from 7:00 to 8:00 during the course of the month and it's part of our programming that includes you. And we just really want you folks who listen and we know talk show

00:23:46 > listeners are pretty emphatic listeners and pretty dedicated JORDAN: listeners. MICHAEL: And I know there is people who listen from all across the country for this MICHEAL: because they call in, so. ANDREW MURRAY: Right, yes, absolutely, ANDREW MURRAY: from the East Cost through the Midwest. MICHAEL: And if you don’t call in even, that’s okay. You can still donate. You can just call in at 923 – 707-923-39 11 because this community radio station is not getting support from. JORDAN: Government. MICHAEL: All, yes, for when you buy products some of your MICHEAL: money is going to… ANDREW MURRAY: Right, exactly. You’re not selling anything, yes. MICHAEL: Yes. And marketing budgets of major multinationals do not support KMUD. ANDREW MURRAY: So any amount gratefully appreciated. Those write out check, money order, whatever you have, send it to KMUD ANDREW MURRAY: here in Garberville. MICHAEL: Yeah, it’s box 135. ANDREW MURRAY: Box 135, Redway. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: California 95560. JORDAN: If you’re listening online, KMUD.org, there is a way to donate right there while you’re listening, press the red button, sustaining membership of $120 a year will – can be taken

00:24:48 > out $10 a month very painlessly and it’s a great way to support KMUD. ANDREW MURRAY: It’s a great way to support your First Amendment too. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Yeah, because the free speech you’re hearing today was paid for by people who donated during our last SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: month drive. JORDAN: Yes. ANDREW MURRAY: Absolutely. JORDAN: So I want to let you guys get back to Dr. Peat and JORDAN: thanks for the show. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Thank you, Jordan. ANDREW MURRAY: You’re welcome. Yeah, we appreciate KMUD for allowing the show, Ask Your Herb Doctor to even happen. I think it was probably 12 years ago now. I know time flies so quickly but I think it was 2004. Yeah, I think it was 2004 we did the first show. Here we are in 2016. Anyway, Dr. Peat, you’re there, right? RAY PEAT: Yes. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So you were telling us about lactic acid and how it feeds cancer cells and because of the SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: lack of oxygen. RAY PEAT: Yes, anything that causes a lack of oxygen or excess of irritation and stimulating to the point of fatigue will produce an excess of lactic

00:25:50 > RAY PEAT: acid. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Just like when you run too long and you get stitches in your side? RAY PEAT: Yes. And lactic acid produces an imbalance in the electrons. It takes up some electrons to be formed but in the process that increases the alkalinity inside the cell and in several ways creates a vicious cycle of more electrons actually than it can take up. And one way that the cancer cell tries to return to normal is to use some of those excess electrons that can't be consumed by converting pyruvic acid to lactic acid just use them in synthesizing fat. So interestingly the cancerous cell turns on the enzymes that synthesize that as a way to drain away more electrons. And then as oxygen

00:26:52 > becomes available, the respiratory process will burn fat and so the cancer cell is eating all the sugar it can get and tearing down the tissue of the body to use amino acids in place of glucose when that's deficient and convert the energy from glycolysis either amino acids or glucose, converting that to fat and then oxidizing the fat with whatever oxygen it has. And oxidizing fat is less efficient to oxygen use, so it adds to the problem of oxygen deficiency. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Is this where the myth comes in where you hear a lot of people say sugar feeds cancer. RAY PEAT: Well, yes, actually… SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Cancer eats sugar. RAY PEAT: Sugar deprivation turns on the Warburg effect turns

00:27:54 > on the stress reaction. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And makes the lactic acid and makes the SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: cancer cells. RAY PEAT: Yes. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So it’s exactly the opposite folks. RAY PEAT: If you go into the ketosis, the stress metabolism that turns on this powerful oxidation of fatty acids produces what they call the ketone bodies but one of the ketone bodies is not a ketone and it's the reduced state of this pairing of acetoacetate and beta-ketobutyrate which is not a ketone. This is shifted so that it increases reductive imbalance. So it's almost as bad as lactate. So it's the stress that is creating the cycle of excess electron imbalance. And that in

00:28:56 > turn activates things that can amplify – depending on the total situation can amplify the stress reaction and the reductive excess of electrons. So that for example the formation of prostaglandins is turned on when there is a shift towards too many electrons, an imbalance in the direction of NADH rather than NAD or too much reduced sulfhydryl, people are talking – actually they are giving glutathione supplements to increase the electron abundance in the tissue or the cancer cell already has an excess of electrons. It's a powerful antioxidant system that keeps the cancer cell alive but in this defective

00:29:58 > state and the same process that turns on prostaglandins which create all kinds of inflammation and tendency to reproduce some cells without differentiating. It also turns on aromatase which makes estrogen which activates more of the tendency to produce excess electrons. ANDREW MURRAY: I picked up on what you said about five minutes ago and I jotted a note down here just so I could ask you this, and this is definitely not scripted. But you mentioned the inability to relax the over-excitation or the excitotoxic effect of various mediators that promote cancer and how the cancer itself is in a very excited state and its constant

00:31:00 > excitation and the oxygen – the presence of oxygen calms that excitation down. How – and this is the part that's unscripted I wanted to ask you to understand this myself because I know you are an advocate of CO2 and increasing your CO2 as a definite health benefit and I know we've talked about oxygen being a poison essentially and I think that's not a poor – not bad word for it. But so how is oxygen in this way being a help as opposed to general understanding of oxygen being a fairly toxic gas? RAY PEAT: The CO2 does at least three central things related to the cancer. One it’s acting like a common agent, the way ATP does to relax muscles that aren’t stimulated holding them in a state of readiness to contract. And the CO2

00:32:02 > is an analog of these pigment molecules that Koch and Moses Gomberg were RAY PEAT: utilizing. ANDREW MURRAY: So you said CO2 has a structural similarity because we haven't even talked about the anthocyanins and the flavonoids yet but is that what you were saying? RAY PEAT: Yeah, it's a acid, a Lewis acid which doesn't involve any protons but the double-bonded oxygens on the carbon are the essential feature of the free radical oxidative catalysts that Koch was talking about and that Szent-Györgyi worked with for about 40 or 50 years. And this acidic effect modifies the proteins so that they are stabilized, calmed down, kept quiet so that they aren’t forced to shift over to the lactic acid metabolism.

00:33:04 > And the CO2 also can fill in and correct what's missing in the Krebs cycle or the tricarboxylic acid cycle. It’s replenishing the catalytic effect of the field that keeps your oxygen process going. And then the CO2 also directly intervenes in the inhibition of lactic acid production, and so just by increasing CO2 breathing in a bag for example for a minute or so at a time several times a day will lower your serum lactic acid and it's only in the last two or three years that several people are recognizing that you can diagnose a cancer just by an increased chronic

00:34:06 > lactic acid excess in the blood and since it's one of the factors that keeps the process going, anything you can do that will shift towards oxidative metabolism and lower your production of lactic acid RAY PEAT: is helpful. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: That’s why you recommend for people who have cancer that they go to high elevations so that they can increase the amount of CO2 in their blood SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: stream? RAY PEAT: Yeah, there were studies in Russia in the 1960s in which they gave carcinogens to rats and then they treated some with chemotherapy and took them to, I think it was 17,000 feet altitude, and the ones at high altitude recovered at a very high rate with or without the chemotherapy. The chemotherapy

00:35:08 > cured a few of them at normal altitude but cured most of them at the high altitude. And about 100 years ago the insurance company – industry was already aware that the cancer mortality was about 10% lower in cities at high altitudes, so it was RAY PEAT: well-recognized. ANDREW MURRAY: Well-recognized because if anyone doesn't want to lose money, it’s the insurance company. Well, thanks so much for explaining that. Let me just remind people again, this is a live show and callers are welcome to call in. I know Dr. Peat enjoys answering questions. The more outside the box, the better for him. I mean I really appreciate your explanation of the CO2 effects and those three different mechanisms and I know I promise you now those nothing was scripted here. That was just straight off the cuff, so really appreciate your input Dr. Peat. The number if you live in the area, 923- 3911. Outside the

00:36:10 > area, 800 number, 800- KMUD-RAD. For those people on the internet, I know that you can always communicate with KMUD via the internet as well. So Dr. Peat just talking about those energetic effects and I wanted to ask you about the pigments and we've already covered some of those. You mentioned a deep purple pigment that Moses Gomberg first discovered or got him thinking about the energetic state of pigments and how – I want to bring into this question the topic of flavonoids and in herbs and in herbal medicine I know that things like bilberry, very antioxidant. There is blackberries. The dark berry pigments and we'll get into a couple of other specific herbs like Pau d'Arco and the anthraquinone molecule in things like cascara and

00:37:12 > Chinese rhubarb and a few others plants that contain anthraquinones and how they have. And I was only reading this afternoon on PubMed some articles based on those anthraquinones being proven to be anticancer or having an anticancer effect. So how do you understand because one thing for me just to quote PubMed articles and understanding my own limited way from my own limited education background of how pigments work in terms of how science is I've been taught understand it but how do you think you see those pigments affecting that electronic change? RAY PEAT: There have been several lines of research on Emodin which is a pigment in aloe and cascara and Chinese rhubarb and it has a tremendous unexpected range of functions including somewhat sedative or quieting

00:38:14 > effect, definitely not a stimulant but activating oxidative metabolism in cells and having a bacteria suppressing effect and reducing inflammation. These are all properties that WF Koch saw in the simple quinone type of oxidative catalysts. And when Koch went to Brazil, he began studying Lapacho. He was probably the one that made it famous, which is a similar structure, multiple ring structure that has a deep color. What these are doing is the same as carbon dioxide. They are modifying, sort of tuning up the electrical system of proteins in cells

00:39:16 > and that's the basic idea that I think has been a common theme from Warburg through Szent-Györgyi is that it's pointless to try to kill the cancer as if it was a parasite that could simply be removed because it turns out that when cells are normally being fatigued and replaced, the dying cell stimulates the growth of stem cells to replace the tissue and that's a process that happens in cancer. The natural cancer cell is very weak and effective, so it doesn't have a long life span, but every time it dies, it stimulates the replacement of

00:40:18 > a similar defective cell. And no matter how you kill the cancer cell, that area is injured and is tending to be replaced. The injury caused by killing it stimulates faster replacement in most situations than just leaving it alone. And the alternative idea is to tune up both the tumor metabolism as far as possible and the metabolism of the surrounding organism. ANDREW MURRAY: Let me pause you there a moment, Dr. Peat. I think we got one or two callers on the line, so let's start taking this first caller. Caller, where are you from and what’s your question? CALLER: Hi, CALLER: I’m calling from San Jose. ANDREW MURRAY: San Jose. All right, what’s your question? CALLER: My question is about the altitudes that Dr. Peat mentioned. Is there any other factor like the weather or something that influences

00:41:20 > in addition to altitude, for example let's say Denver versus Albuquerque, they have different weathers but fairly similar altitudes. Will both be beneficial or is there is something else also to look at? ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: Was what beneficial? ANDREW MURRAY: It’s the altitude. So he was saying was there any other mileage in external factors like weather over the actual altitude that has a beneficial effect? RAY PEAT: Yes, I think excess humidity is harmful because our osmotic balance is part of the process of tuning up. There is an interaction between oxidation reduction and pH and osmolarity and all of the regulatory processes indirect and if you have very high humidity it’s a slight stress to the system, so middle range humidity is good,

00:42:22 > and as much daylight as possible. 15 hours of daylight seems to be optimal for recovery RAY PEAT: from cancer. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So I mean the Andes would be a good idea, not humid, closer to the equator and SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: high elevation. ANDREW MURRAY: So my question to you Dr. Peat then perhaps about humidity is somewhere like Hawaii not a good idea? I mean, I know it’s at sea level for a start but maybe. RAY PEAT: A volcano in Hawaii would... ANDREW MURRAY: Right, there you go. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Mauna Kea. ANDREW MURRAY: The top of Mauna Kea. All right, so humidity you said is a negative effect. It has a negative effect, but outside that and daylight, the similar altitude will produce the similar benefit. RAY PEAT: Yeah, I think so. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So I think we have another caller on the air? Hi caller, you’re on the air. Where you’re from and what’s your question? CALLER: This is Jordan from Midway and I wanted to ask Dr. Peat a two-part question.

00:43:24 > Dr. Peat earlier, you said that when cancer cells go from, they survive on glucose and then when they’ve used all the glucose, they go onto amino acids. I was wondering are those the foods of choice for the cancer cells or is it because they are so acidic, or is it because they are readily available, and then the second part of the question is I’ve heard you say before that amino acids create a medium in the body that allows cancer to grow and it’s confused me because the amino acids are essential. So I just would like a little explanation on that. RAY PEAT: It depends on what kind of amino acids. The cysteine, tryptophan, and methionine are the ones that most easily promote cancer growth and development but glutamine and

00:44:26 > several of the easily metabolized amino acids are the ones that fuel the production of lactate even when glucose is not available or is currently being depleted. So the stress that lactic acid reinforces turns on cortisol production and other stress signals that breakdown, shift the balance away from protein synthesis to protein breakdown providing amino acids. Also fatty acids come into the bloodstream under the same stress conditions. And if those are polyunsaturated, that adds to the prostaglandin inflammation promotion. And the stress hormones, cortisol and the prostaglandins,

00:45:30 > accelerate both the inflammation and the conversion of the tissues to food. There have been several types of experiments in which cancer growth could be slowed down by giving intravenous glucose. The [indiscernible] researcher who was – he began working on the Pasteur Effect probably was aware of Szent-Györgyi’s thinking in the 1940s. Some of his research involves giving good doses of glucose either intravenously or orally and with the use of intravenous glucose and a higher provision of oxygen, the Ehrlich- ascites carcinoma

00:46:32 > he found could be reverted to normal metabolism. The classical example of a cell that is in the Warburg Effect of making too much lactic acid giving it as much sugar and oxygen as possible caused to revert the normal metabolism. CALLER: Well, thank you doctor. That’s brilliant. Thank you so much. ANDREW MURRAY: Well, thank you for that. CALLER: Thank all the CALLER: doctors. Thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, so I think we have another caller on the air, so let's ANDREW MURRAY: take this next caller. MICHAEL: Actually they just disappeared, so hopefully they will call back in a second. Callers, call back. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, so the number here if you live in the area is 923-3911 or if you’re outside the area, it’s an 800 number, 1-800-KMUD-RAD. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So Dr. Peat we've talked about carbon dioxide, high elevation being quite an anticancer therapy and we've also talked about some antioxidants from like cherries and blueberries, bilberries and

00:47:34 > the Pau d'Arco, cascara. What are some other things that you would say are pretty anticancer and help build this respiratory process. RAY PEAT: If you think of the process of stress between too much excitation and not enough energy and just look at things that are known to reduce excitation, anesthetic, some of the common anesthetics will turn of the excitation enough to slow down RAY PEAT: cancer growth. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Have they done like injections of lidocaine or . RAY PEAT: Yeah, lidocaine can has been proven effective against several different cancers, leukemia and several solid tumors, I think, liver, pancreas and breast, prostate. ANDREW MURRAY: Can I hold you there? We do have another caller who I think maybe that caller has called back, so let's take this. All the lights were flashing, you telling me there

00:48:36 > ANDREW MURRAY: is no caller. CALLER: No, it’s a new caller. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, he is a new caller. Good. Okay, caller you’re on the air. What’s your question? ANDREW MURRAY: Where you from? CALLER: Hello? ANDREW MURRAY: Hi, you’re on air. CALLER: Hi. Yeah, now do you advocate – let's say you have a lump that just contain it has [indiscernible] let's say it’s a lump in your breast or somewhere else. Can – that it’s easily gotten to. Would you advocate surgically removing that lump, so that it won't continue to be a time bomb and keep growing? ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat, I can't imagine you would but Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: It depends on whole context of – I've had lumps or things that doctors advised me to have biopsied and I just changed what I was doing and the problem went away. But if you aren’t aware of anything that you can change and if it – for example if it's hard and stuck to surrounding

00:49:38 > tissues so that it seems definitely to be cancerous, then probably a lumpectomy is okay. If you make sure that that you're taking precautions against activating a cancer by surgery itself which. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: What kind of precautions can you take? RAY PEAT: For example surgeries done when a women is in the low progesterone part of the month before ovulation, that is much several times more likely to metastasize than in presence of high progesterone, and I think all of the things that are known to reduce excitation reduce lactic acid production and increase

00:50:40 > oxidative metabolism, I think if all of those are done, then a lumpectomy is relatively safe. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, we do have another caller, so let's keep moving here and get this next caller and I give him a chance to ask the question. ANDREW MURRAY: Caller, where you’re from? CALLER: Hi, I’m [Indiscernible] in California. My question is around thyroid. It seems that needs to be at optimal function. I recently went through about five years of really hard stress. I’m having fatigue. I have my thyroid levels drawn which what they draw is TSH and free T4 which come back normal but on the low end and I’m wondering if there is another test that I could ask for because I know if I increase a thyroid medication dose it will change my life but I’m wondering if we’re looking at the right labs. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, and there is one more caller after this Dr. ANDREW MURRAY: Peat so. CALLER: And I hang up, thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, thank you. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: I was going to say

00:51:42 > ma’am if you take your temperatures and pulses at specific times of the day and specific reference to eating, that's a much more accurate gauge for yourself to assess your thyroid function and if you contact us we can send you a form for free, so a form that you can fill out your temperatures and your pulses at different times a day. And Dr. Peat, do you want to SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: mention something? ANDREW MURRAY: Go ahead we’ve only got five ANDREW MURRAY: minutes. RAY PEAT: Yeah, the T3 is the essential active thyroid hormone, and under stress, T4 is converted to reverse T3, which interferes so you can't at all interpret thyroid function with just T4 and TSH. And even T3 by itself you have to consider how much stress is causing it to be converted to be inactive and blocking form. And so you want a good ratio of active T3 to reverse T3.

00:52:44 > And if you measure your cortisol, you can see usually what is causing it to be inactive. Sugar glucose is needed to convert T4 to the active T3 form and hold down the cortisol which would inactivate the T3, convert T4 to reverse T3. So sugar is protective. Keeping avoiding hypoxic conditions or inflammation that wastes oxygen locally, any area that's deficient in oxygen or has an excess of lactic acid can locally destroy active RAY PEAT: T3. ANDREW MURRAY: I think I have to hold you there Dr. Peat. I don't want to be rude but we've got a couple of minutes just to close out some information here before we sign off at 8 o’clock, ANDREW MURRAY: so thank you so much for your time. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And is there anyone SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: last thing you want to say Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: No.

00:53:46 > SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Okay, thank you so much Dr. Peat. And I want to make sure I announce before we wrap up here that the Broadway Cinema is showing Vaxxed or we are trying to get it to show Vaxxed. There is two showings that are potentially possible. If people go online... ANDREW MURRAY: And what’s Vaxxed about? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Well, I'm going to tell you that in a minute. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Well, I’m trying to hurry up here. So Vaxxed is about a story of vaccination in families. That is a Facebook page. ANDREW MURRAY: Vaccine damage? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Yes, SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: definitely. ANDREW MURRAY: Very much supporting that positive correlation between vaccines and damage. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And it's From Cover-up to Catastrophe . It’s an investigation into how the CDC has covered up some information. There is a whistleblower. It's supposed to be a very interesting film. I'm hoping to see it when it comes to Broadway Cinema in Eureka if it does and you can visit the Facebook page. It's called Bring VAXXED to Humboldt and you can go on to Gathr, which is gathr.us/

screening /16238, probably easier just to go to the Facebook page and then you can get information from there. So the two showings are August 10 at 7 PM and August 15 at 7 PM. Try to sign it for the August 10 first so that we can actually get the film here, otherwise August 15 will be the second showing. ANDREW MURRAY: Thank you for all the callers that called in. We did have some more that we couldn't get on and thanks so much for being there. I just want to let you know that next month we won't be doing the show but we'll be back again in September and it's my intention to carry this topic on through to next September because we've hardly had any chance to ask questions that I wanted to get Dr. Peat to answer. So thank you so much Dr. Peat for joining me on the show. Until the third Friday of September, ANDREW MURRAY: my name is Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: My name is Sarah Johannesen Murray and we can be reached on 1-888-926- 4372. That’s 1-888- WBM-HERB. ANDREW MURRAY: Good night. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: Good night.