Your Own Health And Fitness: Thyroid/Progesterone And Diet

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > LAYNA BERMAN: Good afternoon and welcome to your own health and fitness talk show. I am health integration specialist, Layna Berman, and I'm here live with you every Tuesday at noon talking to you about healthcare and fitness trends and taking your phone calls. This week’s show is an interview with biologist, researcher and medical activist, Raymond Peat. He is the true pioneer of the use in supplemental natural progesterone among other things. And as usual, I will open up the phone lines at 12:30 at 510- 848-4425 for your participation. I want to remind people if you'd like to get a tape of today’s show or you need to get hold of me after the show, you call my office during normal business hours and that number is 707- 769- 1458. I don't actually

00:01:02 > want to do much of an editorial today because I have a lot to discuss with Dr. Peat and I want to get right into show but I'd like to give you some information about why this show is so important to me and why I chose Dr. Peat to come on the air with us today. It was roughly 15 years ago, I went to a lecture, a small talk actually at UCSF and Ray Peat was there speaking and he spoke a bit about, among other things, some research that had been done on the topic of helplessness using animals, so it’s unfortunate, I mean, rights people would not like this research but they had done an experiment that proved that when animals were made to feel helpless, they lost the will to live, and he was discussing this in the context of how it affects patients who are caught in a chronic illness cycle and are in a cycle of being

00:02:04 > treated constantly and being dependent on treatment. He also spoke about the use of natural progesterone and thyroid medication as things that excite the cells and help the body to pull out of an inhibitory state. His work is very controversial, although some of the things – many of the things, most of the things that he said that I heard 15 years ago now are considered sort of the new wave of information in somewhat alternative health, although even in mainstream health some of the swings that we've made from polyunsaturated oils to recognizing the use of saturated fats for cooking and various things and certainly the use of progesterone, natural progesterone and thyroid medication and the problem that people having with thyroid. So I have chosen to do a show with him and I want you to understand that you he may find a lot of what he has to say confusing and controversial, but I want you to maintain

00:03:06 > an open mind as I do with him at all times and consider what he has to say and try it on for yourself. As with all of the shows that I do, I want you to think for yourself but it's a rare opportunity to have Dr. Peat available to us and I think that he is a very important researcher and I think you want to listen carefully to what he has to say. In ways of an introduction, Raymond Peat has a doctorate in Biology from University of Oregon with a specialization in Physiology. His books include Mind and Tissue, Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine, Nutrition for Women and Generative Energy. He has taught at the University of Oregon, Urbana College, Montana State University, National College of Naturopathic Medicine. Universidad Veracruzana and Universidad Autónoma Del Estado de México. He founded Blake College which is an International University. Dr. Peat in addition does independent research,

00:04:08 > continues to do it, thank goodness for all of us and private endocrine and nutritional counseling. Some of you have just been introduced to Dr. Peat because he has mentioned in Dr. John Lee's book, What Your Doctor May Not Know about Menopause as Dr. Lee's inspiration for his research on natural progesterone. So without any further delay, I would like to welcome you to show. Are you there, Ray? RAY PEAT: Yeah, hi. LAYNA BERMAN: Thanks so much for taking the time. RAY PEAT: I thought that was a good context you created talking about the helplessness thing because since Dr. Lee’s book came out, I’ve been hearing from people who say I just want progesterone for my bones or whatever and I think the real meaning of any of these natural supplements or substances is that they participate in everything, their physiology and ecology are tied

00:05:10 > together in a system and these things are important because they are sought of central length in this ecological, physiological system, but even inside the perception of power or helplessness can make a tremendous difference in how these hormones work and when people think of them as products or drugs, they are almost certain to misuse them in some way. LAYNA BERMAN: Well, the reason I brought up the research in helplessness is because essentially hearing the lecture that you gave let me out of the cage and I had a completely different view of my health after that and it had a profound effect on me. I think it’s a good segue to talk about what you talk about when you talk about an inhibitory state which is the same as what you stated to say, so that I want you to talk about the fact that we are not talking about progesterone, we are talking about the way for instance our modern diet has

00:06:12 > suppressed thyroid function in a way that all of these systems work together. RAY PEAT: The idea of the inhibitory state comes largely from a Pavlovian tradition and Pavlov saw three basic biological states. One in which you’re so well rested and prepared that you could respond to challenges without being stressed and the other – that was high inhibition, readiness and the low state of being inhibited is sort of protection against over-stimulation and in between is the range of stress and energy is needed to put us up into the readiness state where we’re relaxed and able to cope without experiencing the stress reaction. And we think of

00:07:14 > cortisol and the gluco corticoids as the central stress handling hormones but the brain is set up such that ACTH which turns on the adrenal hormones such as cortisol, ACTH is produced in response to a substance which is only produced when we’re deficient in pregnenolone and thyroid, the precursor materials. And so that when you’re in that replenished state with enough pregnenolone, you don’t even resort to the stress reaction. That’s the latest biological meaning of the high state of inhibition or readiness. LAYNA BERMAN: So to make it accessible to people who are listening, many of us have been, as we often like to say, running on adrenaline instead of something more

00:08:16 > sustaining and there is a lot of adrenal exhaustion in people with autoimmune diseases and whatnot, so part of what happens is there is a wheel and somewhere along the line you have to be able to stick a stick in the wheel to make it stop. What is the stick? What’s the first stick? RAY PEAT: Adequate protein and sodium are very crucial for the average American. Adequate high-quality protein is needed before you liver can regulate your blood sugar and all of the hormones, and without that you tend to waste your minerals and sodium is a key mineral. And so people who are on low protein and low sodium diet are doing exactly what puts them into the stress situation. LAYNA BERMAN: And as I understand, there are foods that you believe suppress thyroid function, which is another key to this, yes? RAY PEAT: Yeah, these

00:09:18 > low sodium and low thyroid are sort of basic things to think about, but there is a whole layer of American foods and there are worldwide poisons you can see belts of thyroid disease and tuberculosis,. for example, wherever people eat too much cabbage or too many beans and lentils. These foods are the classical traditional thyroid inhibitors but chemically it’s the essential fatty acids so-called the unsaturated fats that are becoming very important to Americans and thyroid and progesterone function. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Well, the reason both of us are laughing is because we’ve had no end of conversations about essential fatty acids because I don't know how I feel about this. I'm rather alarmed by what Raymond

00:10:20 > is saying, but I'm confused because when you go to, at least what I've seen in biochemical and nutrition textbooks, they say that – you know that the premise I think that Ray is talking about is that saturated fat will turn into essential fat but my understanding is that saturated oil can't turn into long chain omega-3's and that although Paleolithic meat had it in because the animals were eating leafy greens since we’re now eating corn-fed meat, we’re not going to get it outside. RAY PEAT: Omega-3 and Omega-6 are the things that people are currently conscious of because of vast marketing campaign that has been going on for 40 years, but when we aren’t given these things which inhibit these external unsaturated fats inhibit our own enzyme system and when we’re not saturated with these enzyme

00:11:22 > inhibitors, our own cells produce Omega-9 unsaturated fatty acids. Coconut oil and olive oil are very similar to what the baby produces when it's not – when it’s relatively insulated. And if you take cells and grow them in culture, they grow wonderfully in a completely unsaturated oil-free culture median showing that human cells whether in the developing fetus or in a laboratory dish do a fine job of producing unsaturated fat, and in fact have more cellular vitality than when they are exposed to these environmental oils. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Well, just again to make it accessible, what you’re really saying is to stay away from vegetable oils, correct? RAY PEAT: Yeah. For example, the degree of

00:12:24 > unsaturation linolenic with three double bonds or linoleic acid with two double bonds in proportion to the number of double bonds, they poison the thyroid function at every known level of the synthesis, the transport and the response in two or three different ways inside the cells are strongly poisoned by the three unsaturated groups and significantly inhibited by the two double bonds of linoleic acid. LAYNA BERMAN: I told you guys this would be going against everything else you’ve been hearing and truly it is. We’re going to run out of time and one of the things I want to make sure we go over it is that I think what we just said is that eating unsaturated – polyunsaturated oils is thyroid inhibitory, not eating enough protein also inhibits thyroid function and

00:13:26 > don't you also believe the grains do the same thing? RAY PEAT: Well, the whole grains contain a variety of toxins that are put there to protect the next generation of the plants. The plants put their worst poisons in their seeds and the next level of toxicity in their leaves to prevent bugs and grazers from killing them. Fruits and roots where the vegetable matter is least toxic, but the unsaturated oils in the seeds are part of the cells that the plants defends against being eaten and digested. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. So when we start to talk about being careful what you eat because it main inhibitor your thyroid function, the reason we’re saying that is because even people who are testing normal for thyroid function but have cold hands and have below normal temperatures and maybe are just slightly low in thyroid function often also are estrogen dominant

00:14:28 > and this includes some men. RAY PEAT: As your thyroid goes down, your estrogen comes up. It’s a very neat connection which is because your liver needs both protein and thyroid to get rid of estrogen and when your liver function decreases, your estrogen automatically piles up. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, just a quick ID for the show. This is your own health and fitness, I'm a health integration specialist, Layna Berman, and I'm on the phone with biologist and that I would say – I’d like to call you a medical activist, Raymond Peat, who is a rare guest and a very important guest and we’re talking about the relationship between diet and the various hormones and steroids that exist in our bodies including thyroid and progesterone. We’ll open up the phone lines maybe at 12:30. I may actually extend the interview a little bit. Let's see how we do. So what happens when you’re throwing off the estrogen balance in the body, and again to remain people, this is not just

00:15:30 > women, this is men and particularly because we’re living in an environment with a lot of xenoestrogens and foods that have estrogen like soy, this can happen in men as well. This leaves us susceptible, am I right, to autoimmune dysfunction? RAY PEAT: Yeah, there are several good books available on the role of estrogen in autoimmune diseases. It’s very central to autoimmune degenerative diseases. In our hamster lab many years ago, some of the researchers saw that estrogen first causes over development of the adrenal cortex in the animals and as they increased the dose, it reached the point that it killed the adrenal cells. It in essence is a stress hormone. Hans Selye in the 1940s described it as a shock hormone. It imitates everything of shock and stress.

00:16:32 > LAYNA BERMAN: Because it’s this sort of line of thinking, I think the end reading – you know, I was going to ask you about where you're looking – what research you’ve been looking at that brings up this stuff about polyunsaturated oils because in many of our conversations you’ve said this research is very old about the carcinogenic or potential carcinogenic effect of polyunsaturates. RAY PEAT: Yes, the oldest study was, that I know of was 1927 in Germany, in which they showed that fat-free diet in rats caused them to be essentially free of spontaneous cancer and just in the last several years, researchers have demonstrated that as you increase the amount of unsaturated oil in the diet there is almost a straight line associated increase of the development of cancer. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, and so saturated fat apparently doesn't do this in your estimation? RAY PEAT: No, and saturated fat is – for many years, it’s known to be

00:17:34 > pro-immunity. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, first there is all the stuff about heart disease that everybody's getting excited about, people do – well, go ahead. RAY PEAT: The Broda Barnes’ books on heart disease are probably the best introduction to this even though the Shoote [ph] [0:17:51] family started in the 1930s showing how estrogen promotes blood clots but Broda Barnes’ work shows that low thyroid, which of course is caused by too much unsaturated fats is the main cause for degenerative circulatory disease, and the research of just the last few years is showing that in fact unsaturated fats are highly atherogenic of the free radical reaction which is developed in thyroid deficient animals causes the blood vessels to be the first

00:18:36 > sight of attack as these unsaturated fats are either eaten or drawn out of the fat storage tissues, they are exposed to oxygen in the blood stream, produce free radicals and attack the lining of the blood vessels. LAYNA BERMAN: Just to – again to break this down for people what we’re talking about is a real hunter-gatherer diet that’s what we’re talking about is eating a very strict hunter- gatherer diet that is probably 40% protein and includes probably some cooked vegetables, well-cooked and tubers, potatoes and fruit. But let's go back to progesterone because you're really quite famous for this now and talk about the link in how progesterone works to help with this, again to put a stick in the wheel. RAY PEAT: Okay. The reason cholesterol is high in the low thyroid people and this was neatly

00:19:38 > established in the 1930s that they took high cholesterol to be diagnostic of low thyroid because you can demonstrate that’s need up and down relationship. For example, a month ago, I saw two people who wanted to pass a health test in a few days, lowered their cholesterol 200 points in about three or four days just by adjusting their thyroid. So thyroid is what makes you regulate your cholesterol but it does it largely by turning cholesterol into steroids starting with pregnenolone and progesterone being one of the major products, so that if you have adequate thyroid and cholesterol and vitamin A, your cholesterol is going to be turned efficiently into progesterone

00:20:40 > and these are the hormones that prevent the stress reaction that involves cortisone and adrenaline. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, well that’s a big if, because for many of us even those of us who – I mean, as we’ve talked before, . there are many people who already have autoimmune disease and maybe you’re supplementing with thyroid now. So part of this has to do with supplementation of thyroid and progesterone because this sort of mechanism of getting well again after the damage has been done is a slow one, no? RAY PEAT: Yeah, and the unsaturated fats also poison the, for example ovaries and brain cells directly. LAYNA BERMAN: I just hate it when you talk this Ray. Go ahead. RAY PEAT: There are other things such as iron overload or unsaturated fat excess or vitamin E deficiency that poison the progesterone-producing cells but the basic thing is having enough cholesterol, vitamin A and thyroid to produce these

00:21:42 > protective hormones. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so some people are starting to take extra supplemental thyroid. Again, well, I am looking at trying to stop the wheel and people are introducing natural progesterone as a supplement to help the absorption of the thyroid and to lower – you know to contest the estrogen. Am I okay? RAY PEAT: Yeah. Progesterone facilitates function of the thyroid gland and that is a potential side-effect of taking progesterone because everyone who is low in progesterone is going to have some kind of thyroid malfunction because the thyroid is blocked in its function by estrogen and activated by progesterone. So if it has been blocked and has a store of hormone, when you take progesterone sometimes it starts the thyroid working too fast as it unloads this bulk. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. So then we’ve got

00:22:44 > people who are getting older. Okay, so first we’ve got people who may be or even really young that are still having trouble with the thyroid being inhibited and the autoimmune diseases and they are taking progesterone and this is again – men can take this as well, no? RAY PEAT: Uh-huh. LAYNA BERMAN: Then we start to get people who are of getting middle-aged and things start to change and that's when I think you like people to consider if they’re ill or maybe not only ill to consider supplementing with pregnenolone. And I asked – I think I told you I asked Michael Kogan, who is a sports nutrition specialist about pregnenolone. He went, no, it makes cortisol and people who are exercising will make cortisol and that won't be good. So tell me – let's tell everybody what that… RAY PEAT: The one hormonal effect that has been seen consistently and it’s the only thing that shows up in when you study animals or people who were given pregnenolone, the only hormonal consequence is

00:23:46 > that if their cortisone is elevated, pregnenolone brings it down to normal, that’s because the elevation of cortisol is connected through mechanisms in the brain circuitry. High cortisol is the symptom of a pregnenolone deficiency and once you get your cortisone down by having enough pregnenolone, then any amount of pregnenolone you take has no hormonal action whatsoever, but you need to be saturated otherwise you are going to resort to cortisone and cortisone is the basic thing that ages the skin, the brain cells, the bones. Every cell is aged faster under the influence of cortisone. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. And then pregnenolone usually advice people after 50 to do. Incidentally just to let you know, I am going to

00:24:48 > go long on this interview. What I'll do is I’ll still break at 12:30 for about 30 seconds and you guys who are listening who want to call him, please try to maybe write to me your questions out because we’ll probably have to move quickly through the calls and then when we come back from break, I’m going to go ahead with the interview for maybe another 10 minutes because there is several things I want to sort of go through with Ray before I open up the phone lines, so start listing your questions down so we can move through them quickly. Pregnenolone after 50, now we’ve got vitamin companies are pushing DHEA, so why don’t you explain how that fits in. RAY PEAT: Okay. Pregnenolone turns into either progesterone or DHEA and DHEA happens to be close to testosterone and estrogen. It’s in the sex hormone pathway. And progesterone happens to be in the adrenal pathway. It's the main protection. It’s the very powerful protection against all of the adrenal hormones, so that you don't

00:25:50 > even need your adrenal glands. Hans Selye demonstrated that the adrenals can be removed when they animal is happy and lives its full lifespan if given progesterone. So progesterone is necessary to make the adrenal hormones but it is the basic protection against an excess of them, so these two pathways are both kept supplied by pregnenolone. LAYNA BERMAN: You know, I am telling especially women to sort of stay clear of DHEA because I think that that’s the wrong step in the pathway. RAY PEAT: Yeah, I knew a middle-aged man who was taking DHEA and had – his liver was expanding so large, I had to get his estrogen measured and his estrogen was high for young woman, and a few days after he stopped the DHEA, his estrogen level was down to normal but his liver now a year later is

00:26:52 > still like a watermelon. And in rat studies, DHEA is highly carcinogenic to the liver. It stimulates first enlargement of the liver and sometimes shrinkage of the thymus because of its overflow into the thymoleptic sex hormones, estrogen and testosterone, but it is chronically a great risk of liver cancer. LAYNA BERMAN: So the way to encourage production of it would be after 50 or so people who want you can supplement with pregnenolone instead? RAY PEAT: Yeah and if you have adequate cholesterol, I think of people as being lucky if they have cholesterol of 250 because that means all they have to do is take thyroid until they have brought their cholesterol down to about 170 or so. And at that point the abundance of cholesterol is a great benefit

00:27:54 > because it makes them able to produce pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. That makes a lot of sense actually. I'm going to break in a moment here but when we come back, what I want to ask you about is, men and progesterone – also I want to make something clear to people. We’re talking about natural progesterone, not progestins, not pharmaceutically altered hormones that are sold by pharmaceutical companies and patented that are changed. We’re talking about natural progesterone that is synthesized still from natural sources but not change, not altered, and we’ll talk about some sources of that when we get back. So let me take a brief musical break. When we come back, I’m going to continue the interview for another 10 minutes or so. At about 12:40, I'll open up the phone lines. This is your own health and fitness talk show. I am Layna Berman on the phone with Dr. Raymond Peat. We’ll be right back .

00:29:58 > LAYNA BERMAN: Welcome back. This is your own health and fitness talk show. I am Layna Berman, health integration specialist. I am on the phone with Dr. Raymond Peat, biologist and researcher. I am holding off. I am opening the phone lines for another 10 minutes because we have an awful lot to talk about. At about 12:40 I will open them up. Raymond, we were talking about pregnenolone and I’d like to move to progesterone, natural progesterone in its use before men and also you discovered that it's good for the relief of migraine headaches. RAY PEAT: Yeah, it’s – Hans Selye discovered all of the basic properties of progesterone. I think his technicians reported that they had killed all of his rats in one experiment with progesterone and he – that he couldn't believe that he fished the dead rats out of the garbage and found that they were just profoundly a [indiscernible] [0:30:51] and it turns out that when healthy animals are in their last day or two of pregnancy,

00:31:00 > people have put them on electrified floors and they don't even noticed that they're being shocked because the progesterone that’s naturally present for childbirth is putting them in a literally anesthetized state even though they are apparently happy and moving around but… LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, don’t try this at home people. RAY PEAT: Most of the progesterone that has been researched in humans, the maximum doses they give injecting 6000 milligrams for example, made people drowsy but never put them into an actual anesthetic unconsciousness, but that's because the solvents drop crystals of progesterone when you injected it or if you take the powder, it doesn't dissolve in ordinary oils but if you take it and dissolved in vitamin E so it actually gets into the bloodstream.

00:32:02 > The progesterone has this rising series of effects which at the peak is of highly protected but in anesthetized condition short of that state it protects against harmful stimuli. For example, some of amino acids are called excitotoxic amino acids and the basic protection against these which are normal brain transmitters but they happen to excite brain cells to death. The brain's normal protection against cell death produced by these ordinary transmitters is progesterone and to some extent pregnenolone does the same thing. They are the only two hormones that work with the other transmitter called GABA, which puts the brain in a protected resting state and prevents the stress damage.

00:33:04 > LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so what – we’ve done a segue here instead of talking about men in progesterone, what we talked about is that it's not possible really to overdose on progesterone. Although you know one of the questions that came up for me is, why can't you become progesterone dominant? RAY PEAT: Well on the way up the scale towards protecting everything, it's also protective against salt imbalance and imbalance of the sex steroids and that means that it protects your thymus and immune system against destruction by the stress hormones or the sex hormones, so it's extremely important in the sense of being protective but it also neutralizes the male hormones. And so this is at a very low level in men it begins to neutralize the testosterone, and so man wants to be conscious that there is this deadly rising protective function,

00:34:06 > and if they don’t want to be protected against having whiskers and other typically male traits, they don't want to take more than just a very few milligrams a day, two or three milligrams a day is about enough to offer general protection without neutralizing them sexually. LAYNA BERMAN: I didn't think it had any feminizing effects. RAY PEAT: No, it isn't. Well, feminizing in the sense of not being either estrogen-affected or testosterone-affected. LAYNA BERMAN: That’s interesting because I thought it did. I thought when women took progesterone that it does increase their testosterone levels. RAY PEAT: No. LAYNA BERMAN: Why does the libido come back than in women… RAY PEAT: Well, because the estrogen, as a shock hormone, causes protective loss of libido at some point, and by stopping that shock reaction, the libido comes back and men can still function even with their

00:35:08 > testosterone highly neutralized, so they feel like they have just come out of a cold shower but the brain still knows how to make everything function. LAYNA BERMAN: This would be nasty if the woman is taking progesterone and the man is taking too much, it could get really ugly. RAY PEAT: Well, it doesn’t really prevent potency. LAYNA BERMAN: Well, just interest I would think after culture. But it sounds like taking a very small amount of progesterone for men will be protection against maybe something that we loosely call andropause or male menopause and prostatitis and prostate disease. RAY PEAT: It has been used largely in Europe to shrink enlarged prostates and I've seen it happen out of very moderate dose that doesn't even affect their sexuality, it'll shrink and enlarge prostate. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Couple of quick things but I think what we’re – so what you’re saying about the headaches, it hasn’t have static effect? RAY PEAT: Yeah, and it stops the vascular problems

00:36:10 > that are involved in the blind spots of migraine. In two of my worst migraines ever I found that in a minute and half the headache totally resolved, and in women it is less likely to have such a quick massive effect because women are likely to have a much higher estrogen level. Estrogen causes nerve sensitivities which can culminate in epilepsy, but migraine is the lower grade of this estrogen poisoning. And the effect on the vascular system of progesterone is in the direction of digitalis that’s considered to be the body's own heart and circulation regulatory substance which is affected by digitalis and this means that it tones up, for example, varicose veins or bulging veins on the backs of your hands or an easy way to see a progesterone

00:37:12 > deficiency but that’s what happens in a migraines of bulging veins impaired circulation. LAYNA BERMAN: Ray, very quickly, do you completely disapprove of ever supplementing with estrogen if women have vaginal atrophy and stuff like that? RAY PEAT: Yeah, because of the side-effects, there must be a lot of other hormones that people could research without going right to the most dangerous shock hormone, estrogen. LAYNA BERMAN: So your sense is that if women are having those, even with progesterone supplementation. RAY PEAT: Yeah researchers have found that vitamin A and progesterone and even DHEA are very often, it seems to be the missing factor. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Now you’re confusing people. So you're saying after menopause when women are experiencing maybe some specific symptoms in her vaginally that rather than use estrogen that in that situation may be DHEA is appropriate. What about testosterone? RAY PEAT: Yeah, people

00:38:14 > have been researching all of those and all of them seem to affect some of the women, and so I think it's better to check them out in the order of safety like with pregnenolone, thyroid, progesterone first and then try as your last resort. LAYNA BERMAN: That’s right. RAY PEAT: Try the one that tends to kill you sooner. LAYNA BERMAN: That makes sense. So thyroid and pregnenolone first. That makes sense. You had success treating Graves' disease with pregnenolone? I mean they are eradiating people's thyroids for Graves. RAY PEAT: Yeah. There is published stuff using what I consider mild doses of pregnenolone. All of their people, the eyes receded and in my few experiences the eyes just sort of were sucked back into the head. It’s such a dramatic process that you have to see what it can do to deformed arthritic joints or emphysema in which there is almost no oxygen getting

00:39:16 > through the lungs or in the state of Graves' disease in which there is a gelatinous material behind the eyeball. The valves of the heart can get the same gelatinous deposit which is, it historically is part of as low thyroid product, a glycoprotein but pregnenolone has the most dramatic almost instantaneous effect like in an hour you can see results. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. What I want people to do is to make sure you got a pencil and paper because I want Ray to give out his PO BOX number and his address. I'm sorry his PO Box number and if you'd like to Ray, also you’re phone number in a second because you actually make an oil which is a vitamin E oil with progesterone which is much stronger than the creams that are available on the market and I think it's a very effective way of supplementing for progesterone and it's easily gotten by ordering it from you by mail including all of your books which are self-published and available by ordering them from you by mail,

00:40:18 > but you know why you never send a protocol with your progesterone oil, so I’m getting no end to phone calls. RAY PEAT: Yeah, people should read the book and become their own expert because like I said at the beginning it’s always individual and progesterone is just one of the central factors in a whole physiological ecological problem and usually you can fix problem with diet, and if not, just diet and thyroid. And I think progesterone just is one of the first aids in repairing the problem but not the answer. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so the book being Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine but given that people should use their body and their understanding to help to treat themselves, how much progesterone is in, say an eighth of a teaspoon of your oil? RAY PEAT: 50 milligrams but you can’t think in terms of what doctors often talk about because that's enough to make

00:41:20 > some people a little bit drunk. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. RAY PEAT: That’s three times the normal day’s dose. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so maybe a 16th of a teaspoon is a better starting dose. RAY PEAT: Yeah. LAYNA BERMAN: And how much vitamin E is in that dose? RAY PEAT: Well, the solvent is – vitamin E is 90% of the quantity and so if you have 25 milligrams of substance, it’s going to be about 200 units of vitamin E. LAYNA BERMAN: Great, I’m so glad to know this now. You have no idea how many phone calls I’m getting. Alright you’re PO Box and you’re phone number? RAY PEAT: PO Box 5764. LAYNA BERMAN: 5764. RAY PEAT: Eugene, Oregon, 97405. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. And you want to give out your phone number? RAY PEAT: No. LAYNA BERMAN: Do you? No? RAY PEAT: No. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so if people want to do a consultation with you? RAY PEAT: Yeah, then can write to the post office box. LAYNA BERMAN: PO Box 5764, Eugene,

00:42:22 > Oregon - 97405 and you also have a newsletter which is $24 for 12 issues. RAY PEAT: Uh-huh. LAYNA BERMAN: A year. And you can, I assume send people information on how much each book costs and… RAY PEAT: Yeah. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. I also have a list of the books and the PO Box at the front desk of KPFA, so people can look it after the show. If you get confused, can call 510- 848-6767 to get some of the information we just gave out, the PO Box. All right, I am going to open up the phone lines at long last for those of you’ve been waiting patiently. This is your own health and fitness talk show. I am health integration specialist, Layna Berman, and I've been on the phone for last 45 minutes. It's been very luxurious with Raymond Peat, PhD, biologist and researcher. We’re going to open up the phone lines now at 510- 848-4425, again 510-848-4425. Please remember to tune you radio down before we pick you up and let's move to our first caller. Caller, you’re on the air with your own health and fitness. CALLER: Yeah, I was curious about how much progesterone

00:43:24 > you need to take to treat migraine headaches because I have been getting them and I do think they are hormonally related? RAY PEAT: Like I said the problem is to balance the estrogen and it's hard to tell how much estrogen a woman has to balance, and so a dose that would not touch a headache in one person might make the other one so drunk they couldn't walk for several hours. So I would say not to try more than 50 milligrams at a dose but then repeat it every 15 minutes until the headache is gone and the efficient way to prevent them is to take thyroid or optimize your own thyroid production so that your estrogen is controlled to a reasonable degree and then it takes little or no progesterone because the estrogen is able to be controlled.

00:44:26 > LAYNA BERMAN: Okay caller, thank you. CALLER: Okay, thank you. LAYNA BERMAN: You know you’ve also mentioned Broda Barnes’ books, but they are in fact out-of-print. Am I right? RAY PEAT: Yeah, I think so. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so maybe libraries, Broda Barnes. RAY PEAT: Broda was his first name, Barnes. LAYNA BERMAN: Broda Barnes may be in the library. Okay, let’s move to another caller. Caller you’re on the air with KPFA. CALLER: Yes, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto’s disease. LAYNA BERMAN: Along with everybody else… CALLER: Six months ago, where it was just astronomically high level of thyroid antibodies. I have no symptoms which can clearly be traced to it and I’m now reached a dose of Synthroid which bounces up my blood test but there is no change in the way that I feel. RAY PEAT: There is a lot of history involved here but in the practical point that I’ve seen is that,

00:45:28 > for example any tissue which is injured, like they have experimentally twisted a piece of cartilage and found that just that small amount of disruption causes it to raise antibodies from its own body and so any tissue which is under stress is going to have antibodies as part of a cleanup process. So don't worry about the diagnosis or the antibodies because everyone who corrects their thyroid function that I've seen has corrected their antibody level after about a year of good functioning but the real problem is that in the 1940s, it was known that almost half of Americans were hypothyroid and got over their symptoms, whether it was diabetes or heart disease or infections, when they were given adequate thyroid. But a drug company came out with the test for protein-bound iodine in the blood

00:46:30 > and they found that 95% of the population had enough of that and so were not hypothyroid and that indoctrinated the whole country to believe that only 5% of the population is really hypothyroid. But in the 60s, it turned out that that test was complete nonsense that didn't measure anything of significance but what stuck was the doctrine that 95% of the people are not hypothyroid and the Synthroid-type thyroxin was tested in the 1940s on young male medical students who were healthy and they said it works just like thyroid but the fact is that it was not tested on women and women, because of the high estrogen that is exaggerated by low thyroid, women who are low thyroid have

00:47:32 > almost a complete inability to respond to thyroxin because it has to be activated by the liver. And over and over I see women who get more and more hypothyroid as they take more and more thyroxin, and sometimes this happens in men, sometimes men can respond because their livers are not as poisoned by estrogen. LAYNA BERMAN: I am sorry to do this, Ray, but I actually know a lot of people who taking a combination of medications including some Synthroid have done really well, so I don’t know. RAY PEAT: Well, sometimes it works but it’s utterly unscientific. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, that maybe so actually. It maybe so but then there is that quality of the body as a laboratory. RAY PEAT: Well, it’s better than nothing for sure but. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah. RAY PEAT: It very often goes the wrong direction. LAYNA BERMAN: Caller, thank you for your call. I guess we should move. Let me ask you something, if people were to experiment with losing, lot of people are supplementing with essential fats like primrose oil and flaxseed oil

00:48:34 > and everything because it makes them feel better. When I asked you about that initially, you said because it has an inhibitory effect on the immune system and so you get less inflamed because of that. How would you stop taking something like that if it's making you feel better? RAY PEAT: Fish oils are the ones that are more effective anti-inflammatory agents but there is a generalized anti- immune function such that they used to sell emulsions for intravenous use of vegetable oils as feeding for cancer patients but since they’ve made the patients die faster then they discovered that it was destroying their immune systems. Now they use the very same emulsions for organ transplant patient just because it does suppress immunity. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, so basically maybe the fish oils get rid of the other stuff is a transitional thing possibly. Anyway let's move to some more callers. Caller, you’re on the air with KPFA. Do you have a question? CALLER: Hello? LAYNA BERMAN: Yes. RAY PEAT: Hello. CALLER: Yeah, I have had chronic fatigue syndrome for 15 years

00:49:36 > Do you have any information that might help me? RAY PEAT: Yeah, very often it starts with either thyroid or beans in the diet. CALLER: Beans? LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah.. RAY PEAT: Beans are very common dietary factor of – they contain antigens that makes them a more complex toxin that cause the liver and the intestine and the thyroid to malfunction and you can break the cycle sometimes just with diet but usually thyroid is an important thing to consider. CALLER: Okay. LAYNA BERMAN: Hunter-gatherer diet. CALLER: Can you just go into this? RAY PEAT: I think I’ve talked about it in newsletters, one called the bean syndrome, which involves muscle soreness as well as chronic fatigue. Several people have written about it in the past but… LAYNA BERMAN: Some people get back issues… RAY PEAT: Yeah. LAYNA BERMAN: Of your newsletters. RAY PEAT: I don't

00:50:38 > like to mention that because it takes long time to find the back issues. LAYNA BERMAN: What about Nutrition for Women, your book, does it talk about it there? RAY PEAT: No, I think the progesterone book is the one people should start with. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Caller, thank you for your call. CALLER: Thank you. LAYNA BERMAN: Let’s move to another. Caller, you are on the air. CALLER: Yeah, I wasn’t listening to the beginning of show, so I don’t know whether you spoke about this but when you’re talking about treating low thyroid, how do you treat it? LAYNA BERMAN: Oh boy. I don't know if we can give you a short answer. We got a lot of people waiting to call in. RAY PEAT: It depends upon where you're starting from. Sometimes four ounces of orange juice every hour through the day for several days is all it takes to activate the thyroid. Sometimes it takes adding eggs or milk to the diet. LAYNA BERMAN: If you’re not allergic. RAY PEAT: Yeah, depending on what the limiting factor is in your thyroid problem. Sometimes one dose of progesterone can break a

00:51:40 > person out of the cycle. Sometimes dropping out vegetable oils or beans or nuts or seeds is all it takes. LAYNA BERMAN: Switching to a higher protein diet without those items in it and low grain too the grain is irritating as well. RAY PEAT: Yeah. CALLER: Okay, thank you. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay caller, thank you. Let’s move on. Caller, you there? Go ahead please. We are having some… CALLER: Hello. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, are you there?. CALLER: Yeah. See I don’t know, great. Okay. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay. Go ahead please. CALLER: Hello, can you hear me? RAY PEAT: Hello. LAYNA BERMAN: Yes, please go ahead. CALLER: Have you done any research on the connection between high estrogen levels and fibroid tumors and obesity? LAYNA BERMAN: Of course. RAY PEAT: Sure, that was well documented by 1950. Alexander Lipschutz and his group showed that the very smallest incredibly small dose of estrogen that he used, if it was allowed to act continuously without interruption by pregnenolone or progesterone or

00:52:42 > thyroid was first produced fibromas in the uterus, then the breast, then the intestine, then the fibromas tended to progress eventually to cancer of every organ. He was one of the people who documented the natural history of estrogen- induced cancers, and fibromas are just an early influence of estrogen primarily in the uterus and breast but ultimately in all connective tissues and other types of cell. CALLER: What can you do of those? RAY PEAT: Thyroid is the basic thing. I have had people get into a slightly hyperthyroid state taking a good balanced thyroid supplement and month by month they have documented that t he thyroid alone is able to shrink the uterine fibroids. LAYNA BERMAN: Really without using progesterone? RAY PEAT: Yeah, the progesterone was tested and does work

00:53:44 > but partly it works through the thyroid and the essential thing is to take enough thyroid to get your estrogen way down even below normal for a while. CALLER: Where do you go? Do you have to go to doctor? LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, you do, and that’s going to be an interesting argument I don’t even want to hear that argument. Caller, thank you for your call. Good luck. CALLER: Thanks. LAYNA BERMAN: I actually have heard people just changing in my experience with clients that I’ve had – just changing their diet and getting rid of the grains, getting protein out, getting rid of the beans, getting rid of the soy and getting them on some supplemental progesterone has worked. RAY PEAT: Yeah, that’s ultimately the best thing but if they are in a hurry to have a baby or something, they can speed it up with. LAYNA BERMAN: They have to get some black market thyroid. All right, let’s take just one or two more quick calls. Caller, you are on the air? CALLER: Hi, I was just wondering. I missed the very beginning of the show and what relation are you talking about the thyroid right now? LAYNA BERMAN: Well, you know what? We’re not going to be able to go back. CALLER: Okay. LAYNA BERMAN: But you can order a tape of the show and if you take my number down at the end. CALLER: Okay, well then I just got a question, I eat a diet very high in beans and grains and I

00:54:46 > have been experiencing lots of fatigue. LAYNA BERMAN: Right, that’s what we have been talking about. CALLER: Thyroid symptoms, my thyroid has been kind of – I’ve been noticing it which is unusual. LAYNA BERMAN: Ray, did you pay this guy? RAY PEAT: A few weeks ago, there was an article in the newspaper about China having 25 million cretins and a 100 million hypothyroid people at least and just a couple days after that article, someone said, but you say soy is poisonous because it’s estrogenic and anti-thyroid, what about all the Asians? And I said, yeah, it is proven that it causes hypothyroidism. LAYNA BERMAN: Caller I’ve made it my mission since I’ve been on the radio to get people to look at this problem. It's not that I have some kind of moral thing about vegetarian diets, I just found that they're not entirely healthy for everyone. RAY PEAT: Yeah, I'm not entirely vegetarian. I do eat meat occasionally. LAYNA BERMAN: Well, you can experiment with dropping the beans and pulling back on the vegetable oils and certainly not cooking with vegetable oils

00:55:48 > and eating more potatoes instead of... RAY PEAT: I primarily use vegetable oil. LAYNA BERMAN: Yeah, don’t do that. RAY PEAT: Ordinary potatoes especially if they fried in coconut oil are often fantastically therapeutic for people with dietary problem. That's a long story, but potatoes have an extremely high quality protein. CALLER: What do you think of protein supplements? LAYNA BERMAN: You know what, we’re not going to have – we’re going to have to – I’ll let Ray answer you real quick but we have run out of time. RAY PEAT: They are generally produced under oxidative conditions that damage the protein seriously, so you can… LAYNA BERMAN: Better to skip it. RAY PEAT: You can get much better protein much cheaper from natural milk and eggs or potatoes. LAYNA BERMAN: We’re going to have to stop. I don’t want to stop but we have to stop. Ray Peat, we’ve given out a PO Box for him. It’s the front desk of KPFA. If people need it, you can call 848-6767. Ray, thank you so much. We’re going to have to have you back if you’re willing to do that. RAY PEAT: Sure. LAYNA BERMAN: Okay, thanks again. RAY PEAT: Okay, thank you. LAYNA BERMAN: Bye, bye for now. RAY PEAT: Bye.

LAYNA BERMAN: I am Layna Berman and I want to thank you for listening If you need more information or want a cassette copy of this or any other in the series, your own health and fitness, you can call my information number 24 hours a day. It’s 707- 874-2772 For a list of other available shows information about guests and news about the nonprofit and benefits of membership and to listen to the show free online, go to the website, yourownhealth Your own health and fitness is a joint production of your own health and fitness and KPFA FM. The engineer for your own health and fitness is [indiscernible] [0:57:27]. Remember being informed not only protects her health, it protects your freedom.