Herb Doctors - Breast Cancer

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

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00:04:08 > Andrew Murray: Well, a very good evening to you all. This is Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From 7:30 till the end of the show, 8 o’clock, callers as usual, are invited to call in with any questions. I would like to try and iterate that I would really appreciate those people that are listening this evening to the show that have questions around the subject of the show, I’d really appreciate that. Just keep Dr. Peat’s attention focused firmly on the subject and to keep the listeners informed as much as possible about this month’s subject which is going to be about breast cancer. In the last couple of months, I’ve been approached by quite a few people actually, startling number of people that have either known someone who has going through breast cancer treatment. I’ve met people that have been dying of breast cancer and it has just prompted me to bring this subject up again. I believe we have spoken about it in the past but this month’s show will be about breast cancer awareness and prevention. I think – I don’t

00:05:10 > think we want to necessarily dwell on the treatment although we will mention those alternative medical treatments that are available and are showing pretty good promise for inhibiting estrogen for example with the aromatase inhibitors but the prevention of it I think is the fundamental key to good health. And so we put peoples diets and lifestyles in the right place to begin with that preventive strategy is probably a better pay off. Okay, so you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM . We’ve very pleased to welcome to Dr. Peat to the show this evening and have his expertise with us. If you live in the area, the 923 number is 923-3911 or if you’re outside the area as a lot of people who call in do seem to be outside the area, there is a toll free number which is 1-800- KMUD-RAD or you can alternatively just go ahead and use the 707 area code, so that will be 707-923- 3911. So just a very brief introduction for myself. My name is Andrew Murray.

00:06:12 > I graduated in England with a Masters Degree in Herbal Medicine, came to California with my wife Sarah, who is very pleased to have on the show again this evening. Sarah? Sarah Johannesen Murray: Good evening. My name is Sarah Johannesen Murray and I’m delighted to be on the show talking about ways to help prevent breast cancer. Andrew Murray: Okay, so we run a clinic in Garberville where we see patients with a wide range of conditions, treat them with herbal medicine and dietary advices whereas consult with people nationwide. Okay, so Dr. Peat, are you on the other line?Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, here I am Andrew Murray: Great. Well, thanks so much for joining us on the show. As always, want to make sure people get an introduction from you about your academic and professional background before we get into tonight’s subject. Dr. Ray Peat: Okay. I'm a biologist, a PhD from the University of Oregon specializing in physiology, especially related to aging and reproductive hormone issues. Andrew Murray: Okay, excellent. So for tonight if not as always it's the specialty that you have given that

00:07:14 > reproductive hormones are surrounding the pitch of tonight's topic on breast cancer. So looking at some articles that I was reading earlier today I think most people will recognize breast cancer awareness and the numbers of people that die from breast cancer is being fairly staggering, and I saw an article that was saying it was the leading cause of cancer death among women worldwide. What's your opinion of the causes of breast cancer in the first place and how does this differ from the medical interpretation? Dr. Ray Peat: The animal studies have been pretty clear for almost 100 years that it is a matter of an estrogen-like irritation, not exactly estrogen in the narrowest sense but the main carcinogenic

00:08:16 > substances such as in smoke and tar are estrogen -like structure and effect. So the breast is very sensitive to an imbalance of estrogen-like stimulation, so it's susceptible to anything that has an estrogen-like effect including smoke and pollutants of various sorts. Andrew Murray: This is down to the fact that the estrogen receptors are most concentrated in breast tissue or some other reason? Dr. Ray Peat: Well, every cell has estrogen receptors but the way they interact with other functions I think is more important than the number of receptors because once you are exposed to estrogen, a cell will produce more and more receptors and

00:09:18 > progesterone has a very central function of destroying estrogen receptors so a breast that's well balanced and exposed to enough progesterone won't have that many estrogen receptors in the progesterone dominance. Andrew Murray: Interesting. So you said that the actual exposure to estrogen will cause an up- regulation in the expression of estrogen receptors? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, pretty much in any cell and irritation in general will do that. A failure of energy combined with stimulation will make estrogen receptors start to appear. So that old people, as the energy production decreases any irritation tends to induce estrogen production as well as

00:10:20 > sensitivity by the receptors. Andrew Murray: So interestingly you are talking about the causal link if you like or the link between estrogen and irritation and stresses and I think later on I just want to bring out some more questions surrounding HRT and that kind of thing and estrogen replacement therapy, and I know when we’ve talked about many different subjects, you do bring out estrogen as being a causative factor in a lot of inflammation and irritation and saying at this point in time that estrogen can be directly responsible for cancers? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, the animal studies in the 30s and 40s were very clear that it isn't just the normally responsive tissues like the uterus and the breast that will cancerize under the influence of estrogen and similar things but

00:11:22 > those are just the most sensitive and with increased uninterrupted exposure to estrogen, sequence tends to go first cancer of the uterus, then cancer of the breast and then of the lungs, kidneys, intestine and liver and brain. Andrew Murray: Are you talking about primaries now or metastasis?Dr. Ray Peat: No, primary.Andrew Murray: Right, okay. Dr. Ray Peat: Any issue that is de-energized and irritated will develop not only the ability to respond to estrogen but actual ability to make estrogen. So your fat or your skin or your liver can become a source of estrogen in proportion to how much stress you're under, even if you don't have ovaries. Andrew Murray: I

00:12:24 > think – go on. I was going to cover the subject. I’ll try and remember the subject and form the last question about fat and conversion. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So it's not just a monthly cycling that's exposing women to estrogen. Estrogen is so prominent in the foods and in our environment increasingly so with our degradation of the environment. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, the irritation, the fact is particularly sensitive to it. It isn't very well supplied with defensive and energetic systems, and so it seems to be a major age-related source of estrogen especially if you're overweight. Andrew Murray: Interesting. Okay so I think that's a subject that should be brought out a little more. So facts in their own right and at this point in time, are we talking polyunsaturated fats or fats in general? Dr. Ray Peat: That

00:13:26 > was just your normal bodily fat cells but since the polyunsaturated fats increase the deposition and storage of fat and since they breakdown to form the inflammation promoting prostaglandins, they make the fat cells more likely to produce excess estrogen. Andrew Murray: Do you think there is any strategy to be benefited by the – because I know you mentioned too about increasing the dominance in the body of saturated to unsaturated fat by avoiding the polyunsaturates and ultimately over three or four years you say that essentially the body fat composition could be turned back to a more saturated type fat if you avoid the polys and...

00:14:28 > Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, there is a thing called a saturation index which is just the ratio between a saturated fat like stearic acid and polyunsaturated such as linoleic acid and people with cancer have higher polyunsaturation over saturation index. Sarah Johannesen Murray: But you're saying that saturated fat cell is still capable of producing estrogen? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, the cell which is more saturated is stabler and less likely to produce estrogen but the more highly polyunsaturated fats are very closely connected with estrogen, so that the amount in the tissue and in circulation of say a five or six unsaturated fats such as you find in fish oil and you produce with

00:15:30 > aging, these are closely associated with the level of estrogen stimulation. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So eating nuts and seeds that are high in those polyunsaturated fats and fried foods that are fried in those corn and canola oil is going to be more promoting an estrogenic fat and… Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, for 80 or 90 years about every 10 or 15 years someone has done a study showing that the more polyunsaturated fat in the diet the higher the cancer incidence, all the way down to extremely rare cancer incidents when there is no polyunsaturated fat in the diet. Andrew Murray: Well, good. I was really just hoping that this show would just highlight again the importance of what you’ve been mentioning for many years now about improving your saturated fat intake and being very aware of the sources of

00:16:32 > polyunsaturated both in pre-made foods as well as foods that you may choose to be cooking with, and that the ramifications that have a pretty wide cause and effects associated with, and cancer obviously is one of those effects of decreasing energy to promote suitable responses and that because it's thyroid surprising effects that is a direct relationship between low energy and the ability for systems to lose their correct structure and organization in terms of doing the right thing? Dr. Ray Peat: Well, now the diet factors that shows that repeatedly in association with a low rate of cancer is a high fruit intake and fruit-eaters getting the carbohydrate and the sugar produce saturated fats of their own, so they keep a

00:17:34 > relatively high saturation index in their tissues. Andrew Murray: Excellent. Okay, good. Well, you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. This evening’s topic is breast cancer. And if we do get any callers here between 7:30 and 8:00, we’ll be good if we can try and stay on the topic that we’re discussing. Dr. Peat, HRT has always mystified me how HRT has carried on for such a long time. I know they are just talking about it recently that is maybe not the best thing for women, now they are finally saying that like they are admitting that the saturated fats are actually better for you than not polys but HRT is a concept. How do you think it came to a position where estrogen was such a promotive supposedly beneficial for your bones to help with things like age-related dementia, memory loss, and it's actually the opposite, you have plenty of evidence to show that it’s completely

00:18:36 > opposite to that. It's actually not good for your bones and it actually increases the chance of dimension. Dr. Ray Peat: There is a very good essay on the internet. I think it's still available. A Harvard Law School paper by Carla Rothenberg on the history of hormone replacement therapy Andrew Murray: Carla Rosenberg? Dr. Ray Peat: Rothenberg. Andrew Murray: Berg, okay. Carla Rothenberg. Dr. Ray Peat: And it gives the political economic history of how the 12 big estrogen companies in 1942 got together to basically take over the FDA, medical journals and universities to indoctrinate the idea that estrogen was the female hormones that would promote fertility and all good female virtues, even though it went absolutely against the research in 1930s which

00:19:38 > showed that progesterone was the essential female hormone that promoted fertility and good pregnancy. Sarah Johannesen Murray: I mean they knew back in 1800s that the chimney sweeps would die of estrogen. Andrew Murray: Right, testicular cancer. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Yes, testicular cancer from the estrogenic effects of the Soot. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, but this was all turned around by these 12 brand companies getting together to promote the idea of the estrogen as the beneficial female hormone and so they came on the market with the idea that I think it was a Harvard husband and wife pair of doctors that promoted the idea that you should give pregnant women estrogen to prevent miscarriage and that produced the generation of DES baby for two generations actually, their daughters also were susceptible to cancer. And after the news got out by the

00:20:40 > late 50s that estrogen was not good for preventing miscarriage, they came out with the contraception idea. They knew in the 30s that estrogen causes miscarriages and abortion and so they sold it for the opposite so they could get away with it, then came up on the market to sell it to prevent or interrupt pregnancies. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So a lot of contraceptive pills allow pregnancy or fertilization to occur but inhibits implantation. Is that correct? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, my thesis adviser, Arnold Soderwall, did some very clear research on a drawing that small amount at the time of or just before implantation would prevent implantation but a slightly larger amount

00:21:42 > after implantation had occurred would cause it to be ejected. And he made a graph showing that at each stage of pregnancy just slightly increasing the dose of estrogen would cause miscarriage all the way from preventing implantation to aborting it at any stage, it would cause the embryo to die and simply be resorbed. Andrew Murray: That’s incredible. It's like another worldwide, I don't know, brainwashing I don't know what it is. I think it's so commonly repeated. These different topics are so commonly repeated by broad stream media and those in, for one of the better word, power the doctors for example who looks up to and respected by most people that go to see them for their education and their progress

00:22:44 > [ph] [0:22:43] if you like. I don't know, that I just find it so incredible that there is evidence out there to show the opposite in very many cases it takes such a long time to make an impression for it to get it enough grounds for the time to get turned on this kind of thing. I mean estrogen has been – ever since I can remember has been the beneficial female hormone and HRT – and my mom was on the HRT and I know all these other women on HRT and it's probably one of the worst things you can do. Dr. Ray Peat: So several years ago someone did a survey of the publications just in the journal of the American Medical Association in the first years after the industry got this conspiracy together, they found that 200 different health conditions had been published in that one journal as treatable or curable by estrogen, all of those 200 turned out to be false.

00:23:46 > So the quantity and quality of the fraud is just staggering to understand. Andrew Murray: Staggering. Now didn’t… Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well it's all marketing, marketing, marketing. Andrew Murray: Yes. Well, what I wanted to ask you is I think I remember hearing something like the only thing – well, and I’ve not heard you say this moment ago unless I've got it around the wrong way. I thought the only really – the only beneficial thing that estrogen was useful was really for getting pregnant but you're saying that actually estrogen at this time of just pre-conception or post-conception would actually abort the fetus? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, Soderwall was probably the most concise in his experiment in showing that it was exactly a dose relationship and you could shift that dose relationship by

00:24:48 > increasing either the amount of progesterone or vitamin E antagonists so that – and my dissertation showed that that interaction work through the availability are largely of oxygen. Estrogen cuts off the availability of oxygen to the embryo making the uterus short-circuit burn up and affect the oxygen, and embryo gets it and progesterone and vitamin E both improve the delivery or preservation of oxygen. Andrew Murray: Could you just repeat the name of the author again? I wouldn’t mind taking a look at if I can find that this information myself. What was the name of the author of that? Dr. Ray Peat: Arnold Soderwall. Andrew Murray: Soderwall. How do you – SODER? Dr. Ray Peat: Soderwall. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And didn’t you say A-L-L? Andrew Murray: Okay, well.

00:25:50 > Sarah Johannesen Murray: Didn’t you say Dr. Peat that they didn’t promote progesterone for all these 200 different diseases because it’s so expensive to manufacture and estrogen is so cheap to manufacture than they wanted to make more money off the estrogen? Dr. Ray Peat: More than that it was that they knew in the 30s someone simply put a glass plate in the smoke of a candle and then extracted the soot and found that they had a whole variety of chemical substances soot essences which were estrogenic as well as carcinogenic. And so they understood that there was an infinite opportunity for having a patentable specific estrogen that you would market as your own product, but any time you change the molecule of progesterone, you decrease or destroy its effect. Andrew Murray: Right.

00:26:52 > Sarah Johannesen Murray: And so all those synthetic progestins actually have an estrogenic effect? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, because progesterone, part of its effect is what it turns into and the additives attached to the progesterone molecule specifically block its conversion into that natural range of other steroids. And since the brain is a major source and user of progesterone, probably the worst effect of the synthetic progestins is that they interfere with the brain. Andrew Murray: Brain function, got you. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So here is a hormone that helps breast cancer patients helps pregnancies. This has all these pro-life wonderful effect. Andrew Murray: Anti-inflammatory. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And they can't patent it because it's a natural hormone, so it's not promoted

00:27:54 > and it's not sold readily available. Dr. Ray Peat: Marian Diamond, a professor at University of California did studies on animals showing that estrogen in pregnancy stops the growth of the brain, especially the cortex, makes it thinner and smaller. Progesterone increases the growth, especially of the cortex of the brain making it bigger, more intelligent and less psychopathic. And Katharina Dalton working in England with for human patients have found accidentally the same thing turning out that the women who were having pregnancy difficulties before treatment, their older kids averaged below 100 IQ. Once she treated them and prevented their toxemia

00:28:56 > of pregnancy, the kids averaged over 130 IQ. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And isn't it quite expensive for companies to manufacture peer bio-identical progesterone? Dr. Ray Peat: Well, not compared to what drugs generally cost. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, I mean the raw material if you compared raw material for estrogen if it’s just soot? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, you can get 1,000 doses of estrogen for a dollar and only a few doses of progesterone for a dollar. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So that it just all comes down to the dollar. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes. Sarah Johannesen Murray: The money. Andrew Murray: I wanted to very quickly bring – and we have a caller on the line but we’ll take that in a moment here. Just wanted to bring out this thing before we would move onto strategies to help women especially because men do get breast cancer but the numbers are fairly low but women especially to improve their odds of not getting cancer by avoiding all those things Dr. Peat that you’re going to bring out

00:29:58 > from stress and its related effects with estrogen and everything else. That tamoxifen was a drug that was used to treat breast cancer, actually promoted endometrial cancer and thromboembolic events in so many people that it was given to. Dr. Ray Peat: Liver tumors and high damage. Andrew Murray: Okay. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And you mentioned that it's actually an estrogenic drug itself, very powerful estrogenic drug? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, it’s less powerful than estradiol and so it can protect against the overproduction of estradiol but it in itself is estrogenic. Andrew Murray: Incredible. Okay, well, let's take this caller and see where we’re going with this. Hello caller, you’re on the air and where are you from? Q: Hi, from Kansas City. Andrew Murray: Hey how you’re doing there? Go ahead. Q: In last month's interview on urea Dr. Peat mentioned that up to 120 grams per day, 15 grams at a time for getting rid of excess water. When

00:31:00 > you said excess water, what were you referring to exactly? Dr. Ray Peat: That’s interesting in relation to estrogen because within about five minutes of an exposure to estrogen, cells begin to take up a lot of water and that excess water stimulates cell division and growth, and that's part of the process of promoting cancer growth is to keep them in an excited inflammatory state of too much water which keeps them from differentiating and functioning but makes unable to keep dividing. And so one of the principles of cancer treatment should be looking at the body’s water economy. Q: One of the question on that,

00:32:02 > so how long or how often for the 120 grams of urea per day to actually have that benefit? Dr. Ray Peat: A Greek doctor, Danopulos was using urea in various forums injecting it right into the tumors for example, also giving it intravenously and it can be applied in crystaller or solid form to an open superficial tumor. It's a very strange material because it doesn't destroy tissue when it – even in a pure crystalline concentrated form and the injecting of 50% solution or concentrated solution is possible if it goes in slowly but people are used to thinking of an

00:33:04 > osmotic effect concentrated crystalline material but urea isn't an osmolite, it has a very strange interaction with water. It can go into cells freely just like the water, so what it’s doing to remove excess water from cells isn't osmotically drawing out the water. It's doing something adjusting the structure of the cells so that it doesn't have that excited need to retain water.And the typical intravenous dose would use a 30% solution giving maybe 20 grams at a time but up to a total about 520 grams per day which could be either for using it as a diuretic for heart failure

00:34:06 > or for inflammation of the brain when the brain is holding too much water because of a disturbance of anti- diuretic hormone or vasopressin or in treating cancer. So a 20 or 30 grams at a time can also be given orally and is well absorbed and circulated systematically so it doesn't have to be intravenous. And if it is used intravenously, it has to be added to have physiological solution of sodium chloride or glucose, 5% or 10% solution of glucose can have 30% or not necessarily that amount but it can have a full load of urea added to it. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So you're saying that you can do

00:35:08 > 20 to 30 grams a day which is probably about a cup of tea spoons? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, that much up to 120 grams. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And then you would want to dissolve that in a little salt water? Dr. Ray Peat: Or fruit juice, that the people recommending it for treating heart failure, they’ve had patients staying on it for years where the other diuretics were disturbing their mineral metabolism that they wear very stable on using urea and they recommended using about 20 grams at a time in a glass of fruit juice doing that several times a day. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So that's probably like two-thirds of an ounce and the urea is a commonly available compound. Andrew Murray: Very cheap. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Very inexpensive and there has been lots of studies showing its benefit. Andrew Murray: Okay. Well, thanks for your call caller. Dr. Peat, what I wanted to –

00:36:10 > just if I could just briefly ask your opinion of a cause of breast cancer, then we can look at some of the strategies that people are going to be employ to negate that or prevent it? Dr. Ray Peat: The standard opinion is that it's a genetic thing either inherited or occurring randomly. And the evidence is just overwhelming against that that the genetic problems almost always develop after the cancer is in progress. The over- stimulation and under supply of energy to the cell keeps the DNA from being repaired, so the stress causes the mutation rather than the mutation causing the cancer.

00:37:12 > But the inherited genes such as what's it called BRCA. Andrew Murray: Yes, BRAC1 and 2. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, that is simply an indication that the person is more sensitive to stress and to estrogen toxic effects. So the anti-estrogen programs are more important, more effective for protecting them. Andrew Murray: Okay, all right. Well, you're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. From now until the end of the show 8 o’clock, we’re inviting callers to ask questions or contribute with whatever they are experiencing with that they have questions for Dr. Peat around tonight’s subject of breast cancer. The number is 923-3911 if you’re in the area or there is an 800 number which is 1-800- KMUD-RAD. It’s 1-800-568-

00:38:14 > 3723. So Dr. Peat, let's quickly look at a strategy. A lifelong strategy for like it’s too never too late to change. Some people leave it to the last minute and some people get on the board fairly quickly but in terms of the strategy to prevent that likelihood of occurring given that you’re saying is very much stress- related and the effects of stress probably bringing in things like nitric oxide and estrogen directly increased in stress, how would you look at best avoiding that? Dr. Ray Peat: When you look at stress of the falling blood sugar and rising lactic acid are universal features of stress and it happens that lactic acid is the main signal for producing the endorphins, the endogenous opioids and the –

00:39:16 > if you look at the effects of stress, they are very closely all down the line associated with an excess and prolonged production of the endogenous opioids and everything that is uncomfortable will increase your tendency to overproduce lactic acid, hyperventilating for example from anxiety when your carbon dioxide goes down your lactic acid goes up and strangely the endorphins didn't get any of the bad connotations of morphine. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well I know, I mean you hear the word endorphin and you think, gosh, it’s good. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes. A study at University of California in San Diego in the – I think it was dermatology

00:40:18 > department. They were experimentally giving people massages and measuring their various stress hormones. They saw that massaging lowered the beta-endorphin and everything, pain or overexertion, anything that interferes with the energy supply will increase the opioids or endorphins. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So you would think that having a massage would increase your endorphins, in reality of course it’s the opposite of what you told. Andrew Murray: Because endorphins are not good. Okay, all right. Let move onto the aromatase inhibitors that are, I think have become… Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, I think what Dr. Peat was trying to get to there is that the low dose naltrexone is being used therapeutically by a lot of doctors and it's a very useful because it lowers those endorphins that are so harmful, all those endogenous opioids, opioids your body produces naturally that can be harmful in times of

00:41:20 > stress? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, and everything you do with that's good, pleasure such as the massage will have that same effect of protecting you against the endorphins and nitric oxide. So the naloxone or naltrexone low dose treatment has a wide range of anti- stress effects including protection against promotion of cancer. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And the happy factor too, right? Dr. Ray Peat: Well, serotonin and endorphins are often called the happy hormones but actually they are the most important mediators of stress and downstream even though estrogen turns on lactic acid and

00:42:22 > endorphins and nitric oxide, the endorphins in turn activate estrogen receptors aromatase, prolactin which acts as a amplifier of estrogen’s effect, you get this back and forth action increasing inflammation estrogenicity and lowering energy production. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Wow, so what can we do Dr. Peat to lower this estrogen with our diet? Dr. Ray Peat: The foods that naturally contain anti- aromatases I think are very important. I always mention orange juice and guavas but there are lots of fruits and vegetables that contain similar chemicals. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So the naringenin is found in

00:43:26 > orange juice but also in higher levels in the skins. Is that what you were saying Dr. Peat? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes. Sarah Johannesen Murray: The orange skin. Dr. Ray Peat: Both the juice and the pealing contains the protective things, so normally it is another source of a protective substance. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Anti-estrogen breast cancer preventative compound. And then what about apigenin? That’s another aromatase inhibitor that you were mentioning? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, I think guavas and celery and parsley are highest sources of that. Andrew Murray: And then COX-2 inhibitors were another rationale for blocking aromatase? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, aspirin for about 20 years I've been mentioning aspirin as probably the safest first thing that anyone who worries about breast cancer should start. It

00:44:28 > is a very effective way to turn off estrogen production in response to estrogen. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And how much a day would you recommend? Dr. Ray Peat: The people with aggressive cancer probably should take 4 to 6 grams and in that case, they also need to take vitamin K to prevent bleeding problem. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Yes, up until the – I've had a patient who was taking six grams of aspirin a day and they just started to get the earrings up, until that point where you get earring then you know you’re at the maximum and you want to back off just slightly till you don’t get that ear-ringing but you have to use a milligram, not a microgram but a milligram of vitamin K for every normal standard aspirin tablet which is 325 milligrams. Andrew Murray: I just wanted to bring out a couple of plant-based aromatase

00:45:30 > inhibitors so that I know we were talked about when we were studying. Mistletoe, mistletoe has been shown to be aromatase inhibitor and I know work was done with cancer probably for that same reason or maybe inadvertently they figured that it was helpful probably through a estrogen blocking activity. Do you know much about mistletoe as how physiologically how you would rationalize it? Dr. Ray Peat: About 50 years ago I ran into some anthroposophy people who got me interested in it and so I followed the research on it but I don't think anything great news has turned up. Andrew Murray: Okay. Because the other things I mentioned were – and you did mention this last month, white button mushrooms. I think the brown button mushrooms are just the same kind of compounds but there are

00:46:32 > aromatase inhibitors in white button mushrooms and I know you mentioned a dose last month that would be a realistic doses in aromotase inhibitor. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, the Chinese study found that women who had at least 10 grams a day on an average had extremely low cancer mortality and especially if they had green tea too, like 88% lower. Andrew Murray: Okay, and then I think the last two things were coffee and… Sarah Johannesen Murray: And green tea. Andrew Murray: Coffee and green tea, yes. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And normal black tea too, I mean, they would all have the same compound. Andrew Murray: Okay. Sarah Johannesen Murray: And I did – there was a caller who called in about black cohosh and that is an estrogenic herb and I would not recommend that for treatment or use with patients with breast cancer or I would not recommend it to prevent breast cancer. Andrew Murray: Okay, so people that are going through breast cancer treatment

00:47:34 > I don't mean to ask you about this because I know you're definitely not in favor of it but the chemotherapy, radiotherapy approach to cancer is just not doing it, is it? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, there is a website that I’m not sure what is available on it but he has written some very good articles on the issue of when and whether to treat certain types of cancer. His name is Gershom Zajicek. Andrew Murray: All right, okay. Dr. Ray Peat: Zajicek. And his accent – now that he has YouTube videos, it’s hard to understand so if you can find his written articles, they are quicker to get through. But from the time of Hippocrates, I think Hippocrates said that for internal cancer, patients who are not treated last long time but those who are treated die quickly. And Gershom Zajicek makes

00:48:36 > a similar point. And 50 years ago, a Berkeley professor Hardin Jones did a study and clearly showed that the longer person waits before treating a cancer, the longer they live. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, and also there is that study that showed 95% of people over the age of 50 had some form of abdominal cancer. Andrew Murray: And autopsy if they died before. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Yes, if they died like in a car crash or for some other unrelated to cancer reason and 95% of people do not die of cancer, so. Dr. Ray Peat: Another person said that looking at all of the organs, 100% of people by the age of 50 have diagnosable cancers somewhere. Andrew Murray: We do have a caller on the air, so let's take this next caller. Caller you’re on the air and where are you from?Q: Garberville, downtown Garberville. Andrew Murray: Okay, go ahead. Q: Thank you gentlemen and lady for your wisdom and your knowledge. I have a question about

00:49:38 > a while back I thought I understood that in all the skunky vegetables, cabbage, Brussels sprouts that kind of stuff but there is a lot of estrogen in those vegetables naturally. Is that true? Andrew Murray: They certainly contain lots of sulfur compounds. Dr. Peat, I think there is... Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, they are so thyroid-suppressive that they allow estrogen to build up naturally in men and women because men actually usually have a lot higher levels of estrogen than women. But are they directly estrogenic, Dr. Peat? Dr. Ray Peat: There are some studies in animals showing a direct estrogenic effect of DIM and its metabolite. Sarah Johannesen Murray: IP3. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Those are commonly touted as breast cancer preventative, endometrial cancer preventative compounds and Dr. Peat just sad that there is lots of studies showing that they

00:50:40 > can have estrogenic effects of themselves. Dr. Ray Peat: So I would say that sometimes they probably do have good effects but I would wait for more research on them. Q: Okay, well, I'm not going to worry about how many Brussels sprouts or cabbage I eat. I want to thank you currently for your wealth of information Dr. Peat over the years here. Thank you. Good night. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, if you're still listening caller. Q: Yes. Sarah Johannesen Murray: You can cook your kale which is most nutritious out of all of them very, very well and cook it with lots of coconut oil and you will reduce some of the thyroid-suppressive effects. Q: Excellent, thank you. Andrew Murray: Okay. All right. So were you going to say anything, Dr. Peat? Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, on the topic of stress and cancer, about 15 or 20 years ago, Carl Simonton was in the news recommending emotional therapy or changing your

00:51:42 > attitude visualizing, trying to have anything to reduce stress as a way to improve survival. He noticed that he was a radiation treater of cancer. He knows that with the same treatment his patients who were cheerier lived longer and later a group at Stanford and UC Berkeley did a study in which one group of women with advanced breast cancer were given some kind of emotional counseling, similar number was just treated in standard way. The ones with the counseling lived twice as long. Andrew Murray: Yes, the mind- body connection is underestimated. Sarah Johannesen Murray: So it shows the mind

00:52:44 > controls all. Andrew Murray: We do have another caller on the air, so let's take this caller. Caller you’re on the air and where you’re from? Hello caller, you’re on the air. Where are you from?Q: Yes, hello. Andrew Murray: Hi. Q: Yes, I'm from Garberville. I’d like that you mentioned the cabbage and the… Andrew Murray: And you should turn the radio down caller because your radio is on or there is something is on. Q: Okay, well, I wanted – is it okay now? Andrew Murray: It’s just the same. Q: Okay, hold on. I’ll put it down. Sarah Johannesen Murray: While we’re waiting for… Q: Hello, is that better? Andrew Murray: Yes, that’s better. Thank you. Q: Okay, yes, I always heard that I think they called like cruciferous vegetables like... Andrew Murray: Yes, the [indiscernible] [0:53:40]. Q: Cauliflower and cabbage were very anticancer and were good

00:53:46 > for you and especially the colon. Now I tend to like to eat a lot of raw cabbages salads. Is it any better if you don't cook it or you do cook it? You say that it suppresses thyroid? Sarah Johannesen Murray: Yes, it suppresses your basic energy currency of your body. Your body’s ability to use oxygen and if it’s raw it’s very potent. Actual thyroid drugs used to treat hyperactive thyroid have the same exact compound that’s in cabbage juice. So raw cabbage is particularly harmful to your energy metabolism of your body. Dr. Ray Peat: But leaves in general can stimulate the intestines so it has a speedier transit and that reduces the recycling of estrogen. Liver excretes estrogen in the bile and if you have slow transit tend to be constipated then much of that estrogen is reabsorbed and circulates again in the body. Q: So in other words if you do

00:54:48 > eat something like cabbage it can make say everything move through your intestines more quickly? Sarah Johannesen Murray: Right, but there are safer thinks you can eat to move get your intestines moving like raw grated carrot and you could eat spinach or chard that you cook with a little bit of baking soda and that will get your intestines moving. Q: Well, what about raw foods? What about – I heard that they have good enzymes in them, they help digest the cooked food like if you have salad with raw, okay, carrots and cabbage and lettuce and that sort of thing, that that’s good for you? Sarah Johannesen Murray: Dr. Peat? Dr. Ray Peat: There is always the risk that since humans can't digest cellulose at all but bacteria can, that the uncooked food is a great for bacteria replication but very poor for human nutrition and so it's a risk and can cause… Q: Well, what about fresh fruit? Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well, fresh fruit doesn't have such high

00:55:50 > cellulose content. Dr. Ray Peat: Yes, the low fiber fruits are very good. Q: So but you wouldn’t – you don’t think [indiscernible] [0:55:57]. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Only raw carrot because the bacteria can't digest the raw carrot fiber like they can… Q: But if everything if it helps move through your intestines quickly. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Well then that’s why you choose the things that are safer to help your intestines move more quickly. Q: Well, then why do we keep hearing that one of the best things to eat to prevent cancer is the cruciferous vegetables? Andrew Murray: Unfortunate misinformation. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Why do we keep hearing that HRT is supposed to be protective for your bones. Andrew Murray: Why do we keep hearing that estrogen is good for you? Why do we keep hearing that sugar is bad for you? It’s unfortunate. I think we have to call that the evening but thank you so much for callers who called in and thank you Dr. Peat for your time. I’ll just let people know how to get hold of you. Yes, I think I just want to sound the show up by saying that what you’ve heard this evening have a rethink about it because you probably never really

00:56:52 > had it before and what you have heard is not the truth and it’s so easy. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Most likely. Andrew Murray: It’s so easy to get brainwashed by media and by companies producing products that is very important that you do your own research because you will find the truth out there. People like Dr. Peat have spent most of his life researching either directly or looking at peer-reviewed papers and looking at the scientific evidence. So it’s unfortunate. We get bombarded, but we do have the ability to turn on the computer and do our own research. But just thanks once again for joining us with the show. His number or rather his website is www.raypeat.com. And we can be reached Monday through Friday on our toll free number 1-888-WBM-HERB. Sarah Johannesen Murray: Good night. Thank you for listening. My name is Sarah Johannesen

Murray. Andrew Murray: And my name is Andrew Murray. Good night. Sponsor: All right, everybody, 7:59. You got to tuned into KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM and HD1 KMUE Eureka 88.1 FM and HD1 KLAI Laytonville at 90.3 FM, Shelter Cove in 99.5 and the rest at KMUD.org. As part of our KMUD comes from the Inn of the Lost Coast in Shelter Cove, fireplace, spa and sauna, suites overlooking the ocean to offer views of the migrating California great whales. Fish tank…