VIDEO | Bulletproof Staff

null | Jeff Chilton: Medicinal Mushrooms & Industrial Mushroom Cultivation

00:00:00 > bulletproof radio a state of high performance hey it's Dave Asprey with bulletproof radio today's cool fact of the day is that we have an intern program well not really our cool factor that is coming up but if you want to spend some time working with people who really really care about helping others as much as you do people would care about being just a little bit better every single day this is probably the coolest internship on the face of the planet at least I want to make it that way so if you think you've got what it takes head on over to the bulletproof website look at the career section and apply to be an intern we're really growing the company and this is a chance to get in well bulletproof is is still its infancy stage so I'd love to have tab you apply thank you today's real cool effect of the day though is that mushrooms are fungi but you already knew that but that's not as cool as the fact

00:01:02 > that they're uniquely different from plants in fact there is different from plants as plants are from animals in fact fungi and animals are in the same super kingdom which is called opus though kunta if I said that even remotely right and if I didn't say that right given my extensive training in Latin today's guest is going to correct me because today's guest is a mycologist who's been in the mushroom business for almost 20 years and probably one of the foremost experts on how to grow your own mushrooms at home and figure out their medicinal benefits if you've read the bulletproof diet you know that I don't think mushrooms are a great regular food source but I'm a fan of medicinal use of mushrooms which is why it's gonna be a lot of fun to talk about the differences between those two things the guests name is Jeff Chilton who wrote the book the mushroom cultivator which was published Oh in 1983 and has been an extra in the field ever since and if you like shitake oyster and enoki mushrooms he's kind of a guy you should think because he was

00:02:04 > one of the guys behind the rd to make those cultivate able species today he runs a company called nem X the North American medicinal mushroom extra X company which is the first certified organic mushroom extract company that there is Jeff welcome to the show hey Dave thank you very much for having me how did you get to be such a mushroom head anyway well you know when you grow up in the Pacific Northwest we end up with webbed feet here it rains a lot so not only do we have a lot of water we have to walk through but it's a perfect environment for mushrooms so so really I had mushrooms around me most of my life growing up and then you know as a child of the 60s mushrooms sort of came of age with me so mushrooms are a pretty common food source and I'm I've seen the some studies about how say white button mushrooms can contribute to smooth cell

00:03:07 > wall proliferation one of the markers of cardiac disease and and I tend to find that people get yeast problems when they eat a lot of mushrooms and and I've basically said look steer clear of mushrooms for a while see how you feel and then you can add the back end but they're kind of a suspect food where they because they have so many complex compounds in them you oftentimes don't know what they're going to do which is why also they make amazing medicine do you do you focus more than medicinally or more from a food perspective and how does that change over the course of your career well you know in the beginning I was a mushroom grower and so that was the food into things and I started as a mushroom grower in 1973 I I got out of university and what do you do when you're have got a degree in anthropology I did study some might call it mycology and I wouldn't call myself actually a mycologist I don't have a degree in mycology but I did study mycology and anthropology but after that I went to work on a mushroom farm because I was really interested in knowing how to grow

00:04:09 > them so I grew mushrooms as food for 10 years and not just the button mushroom that you see in all the stores but shiitake and oyster mushroom and other what we would call specialty mushrooms so that that's a big part of it for me while mushrooms is food but I also knew that mushrooms had this medicinal side to them and so that was something that I was always very interested in and something that ultimately I started reading more about and then that became the basis for my business so now you use extracts of mushrooms rather than whole mushrooms medicinally well you know you know what the and this is this is an important part for all herbal medicines and that is how do we get enough of the active compounds from that particular plant or mushroom to to benefit us because for example if you just take an herb or a mushroom and you grind it up to a powder you're going to have to

00:05:10 > really take a lot of that powder and you know most companies are putting out products that are capsules of 500 milligrams and they say take two a day well that's one gram of dry powder and that's really not enough to give you an actual medicinal dose and so so the key there is how do we concentrate those mushrooms down into to a a form that will allow you to to actually get a beneficial dose and that's the key because you know you and your listeners when they take something they want to know that they're actually getting the right amount of it or something that will actually produce an effect you wrote a white paper which is the reason I asked you to be on the show I just came across it actually her son who's a bulletproof follower send it to me and he is indeed yeah I was like wow this is really neat because you were at a 30 page paper you did a bunch of laboratory analysis and you found that a lot of the mushroom products that are on the market are what did you find it in this white paper I don't have to translate it you wrote it what did it say it was pretty

00:06:11 > groundbreaking well yeah and and thank you for mentioning that because you know the one of the things that I could maybe sit here and talk about other people's research but this is actually research that we did ourselves and and that's something that for me has been very very important right from the very beginning with my company I wanted to analyze my products for the active compound so that I could say to my customers look the product i'm giving you has X amount of the actives so so I did a study with a hundred different samples and the key compound in mushrooms almost of the really key medicinal compound are what are called beta glucans and and after many years they're finally was a test where we could measure the beta glucan content of mushrooms specifically for mushrooms so so what I did is I took a hundred samples i started with dried mushrooms i also had mushroom extracts and then i went out on the marketplace and i bought

00:07:13 > 40 different products that were on the market many of which were what are called mycelium and and mycelium the thing is mycelium is one part of this fungal organism that we often call a mushroom but mycelium is the actual body of the organism and the mushroom is the fruiting body where you normally only see the mushroom because we're out walking around and we see this thing sticking out of the ground and we think wow mushroom but what we don't realize is that under the ground is the actual fungal organism itself that produces the mushroom the mushroom is the fruiting body and it's there for just a short period of time so my study essentially analyzed mushrooms it analyzed the mycelium and and came up with actual hard data on these various person and the important part about it is that I I took and analyzed a lot of products

00:08:15 > right off the the marketplace products that were out there just i bought the bottles we took him out of the capsules and they became part of this study and and what we found was that the vast majority of the majority of these products that were called mycelium products actually were mostly starch well the reason they were actually starch was because these mycelium products were being grown on grain and the grain at the end of the process was not being separated from the mushroom mycelium so what you ended up with was a product that was very high in residual grain and very low in mycelium so you're you're actually could be getting gluten containing mushrooms well well here's the thing the the grains that most of these producers are using is gluten-free a lot of losing brown

00:09:17 > rice a lot of them are using other grains so it's gluten-free but the the problem is is that these products are being sold as mushrooms and so when you go out and you look at the label that says reishi mushroom or shitake mushroom when in fact the product is this fungal mycelium in a very small amount and mostly this residual grain and and the reason that we were able to ascertain this was because mushrooms do not contain starch mushrooms mushrooms for any sort of storage like that they contain glycogen but very small amounts of that so so the mushrooms were very high in beta glucan the look next to no starch the mycelium on grain products were very high in starch and very low in beta glucan so it's just the opposite of what a medicinal mushroom product was

00:10:20 > supposed to be so so I'm looking at the marketplace and I'm going holy smokes we have all these products out there that people are buying thinking they're getting medicinal mushrooms in the medicinal compounds in them when in fact they were actually buying mostly grain powder this is going to cause a major storm in the mushroom industry because mushrooms have become really a hot thing medicinal mushrooms and what your data shows is that there's quite a lot of we'll just say deceptive practice in in that business well in what I call these are facsimile products they're not genuine medicinal mushroom products and and you know for me in this business I'm trying to sell a therapeutic product I'm trying to sell a product and people buying them want something that it is going to be therapeutic they're buying it for a reason because because they have they have read about these things they've learned that they're very good for enhancing immunity they potentiate

00:11:21 > are our immunity that's why people are purchasing these products but but in this case a lot of those products are simply mislabeled and also manufactured in a way that does not produce the medicinal compounds that people are looking for in medicinal mushrooms now you do sell mushrooms that are done right so you kind of have a vested interest in saying this day and you published all the data in your white paper did you publish the lab reports like how complete is this well you know I'll tell you what I'm I'm a raw material supplier so I sell products to companies that then take my raw materials my mushroom extracts put it in capsules bottles put their label on it and I've been in the business since 1991 and the fact of the matter is is with this study personally whether I sell more product or not makes very little difference to me my business is pretty stable I don't have to sell more product

00:12:25 > doesn't really matter but but for me the most important thing is this is a category that I feel is really important and people deserve to be to be taking gen-u-wine medicinal motion parks at some point if they're taking products that have none of the medicinal compounds in them then ultimately they'll say well yeah I've tried these medicinal mushrooms but you know what they really didn't do much for me and and so that's my feeling about it all i want i want this category because i believe in it i believe these mushrooms can can help people these mushrooms have their proven scientifically to have benefits and so i think people should deserve to be to have those benefits when they when they buy these products i just think and this is something that you know it's it's all industries have this type of thing going on to some degree and in this business there's a lot of products out

00:13:26 > there not just mushrooms but a lot of products that maybe maybe they're just very low potency products may be there what I call lowest common denominator I mean you've probably seen those kind of products in year when you're out there as well products where you go well yeah this is kind of like an entry-level probably not going to get much out of this you're probably wasting your money and whereas a good product is there are good products out there and you can find them and but maybe you'll have to pay a little more or something and it's a tough market Dave I mean everybody out there all the companies i sell to their competing at like 9 95 and 1995 and so there's so much pressure to to purchase the cheapest product out there you also get you also get these companies who will put in 715 micrograms of substances where I take 50 milligrams a day so they're putting in less than one milligram so they can have it on the label even though they know that it's really not physiologically active but at least it's there to look good and some

00:14:27 > of the real expensive guys do that too oh that's absolutely right and and you know one of the things that if you look closely at a lot of the studies that are being done and you look at the amounts that are being used to get the kinds of results that they're getting in the studies well you'd know that to get those results a person would have to take a tremendous amount of these particular products whether you know even with some of the mushroom products and one of those in particular I would say would be even this her aseem erinaceus which is a lot of people are interested in now it's this lion's mane mushrooms yeah well to get the benefits of it you're going to have to take quite a bit of it and and you know people at you know there's companies out there that will sell you these products acting like oh yeah to take two capsules a day this and and you're going to you're good to go you're not good to go you you have to really take a significant amount and and for me the key for me is is I I want

00:15:28 > to analyze my products I want to say to my customers I've analyzed my products got twenty-five percent beta glucan in that product I have zero starch I'm giving you an opportunity to to know that you actually have the the compounds in this product that make it what it is medicinal so when one of the tricks to medicinal mushrooms that I think is unknown is that when you grow them on grains they don't get the precursors that are required to make the medicinal extract can you talk some more about why sort of feeding brain to mushrooms is just about as bad as feeding grains to cows like what comes out the other end isn't the right thing oh well yeah I mean it's it's a very you know let me start by saying this that the the reason why mycelium is being grown on grain is very simple it's you cannot produce mushrooms in North America cheaply

00:16:29 > enough to sell them as a nutritional supplement you cannot do that you just it's just if you take for example if you take a pound of shitake mushrooms and the grower has to get I think last year it was three dollars and fifty cents a pound well if you dry that out that becomes thirty-five dollars a pound now the grower has to get thirty-five dollars a pound for that same pound of shitake mushrooms nobody is going to pay him that amount of money for that so so so because of that in North America producers are like I can't grow mushrooms but I can grow mycelium on grain in a in a laboratory in a sterile environment and and what this is it's a very simple product that that has been around since the 1930s when it was a revolution which was this is called mushroom spawn this is actually the seed that is used to produce mushrooms

00:17:33 > normally you would take this mycelium on grain and you would break it up and you would you would spread it through a substrate something that you were the mushroom was going to feed on to produce much that's what this is so what some people have done and and here here's the thing i did the same thing in the 90s I in fact an I've grown mushroom spawn for years and years and years I know mushroom spawn I even sold it as a supplement in the 90s but I realized that that you end up with all this residual grain in there and you don't have the app to address your question the active precursors that you need for example reishi mushroom reishi mushroom mycelium on grain produces none of the important triterpenes these triterpenes are why reishi mushroom is unique a very important compounds in and Mycenae aman

00:18:35 > great we've tested mycelium on grain it is a flat line there are no peaks in our high-performance liquid chromatography test it says there's nothing there it's the same with chaga people out there are buying these chaga products and well the place where chaga gets the bed chillin and the tramadol anak acid and these other important compounds is the tree without the tree and the precursors in the tree it's not in this chaga what this means is that most cultivated mushrooms because they're called a bit in a cheap industrial manner even if they're medicinal don't have medicinal compounds you have to get them well crafted or the cultivator has to go out and find the substrate like ground-up trees maybe and put this in a warehouse somewhere well it should be actually expensive but well well yes I know what what what it does mean is is that no there are lots of mushrooms in this

00:19:37 > world lots of mushrooms eighty-five percent of those mushrooms are grown in China that's where I get my mushrooms Dave I get my mushrooms from China I traveled in China all through the 90s I I visited farms I visited research facilities I visited factories that produce it extracts in 1997 I went to china and i sponsored the very first organic mushrooms certification symposium in china literally that was the first 1997 and around 2000 2001 people were producing the very first organically certified mushrooms in china when you went to china though we're talking about organic and china in the mid-90s like even now organic in china is generally something that chinese people don't

00:20:38 > believe like they'll not by chinese made organic products because they know it's a lie well not but it generally can be so well like yeah you know what it's just it's an interesting subject because you know I I guess what I would say is certainly Chinese certifiers you might be suspect of the products that that I get from China that organically certified are actually certified by by European certifiers high quality well-known European certifies ER and and let me say to that you know it's a concern it's a concern everywhere but but let's face it do you eat all organic produce and fruit and do people in the US do that I mean I do i do my best to but we spread spread tons of pesticides and chemicals around as well but but I've sensitive this of course and and every product that we that comes over has to go through very significant

00:21:41 > testing heavy metals especially I mean everybody's looking at heavy metals I've always had to test my products for heavy metals especially organisms pesticides we we have to test all these products so so i can't sell these products unless they've been tested so here's a weird question about microbiological testing i bought a couple pounds of shitake mushrooms at costco years ago and they were actually covered in mold oh what the heck was going on there okay here's what's going on there's two things going on Dave one of which is is it's taken a long time for produce managers to understand how to handle mushrooms fresh mushrooms and number two which is very interesting is if you leave them out too long and especially if you have them because I've seen this on oyster mushrooms before if you have them over wrapped as they get older what

00:22:43 > happens is the mycelium starts to grow because the the mushroom itself is made up of similar tissue as mycelium so all of a sudden that mushroom will start to regrow its mycelial part I've even seen mushrooms growing off of mushrooms and I've seen that in I've seen that in in in supermarkets before and and I want to say to the produce manager has nobody trained you here so you've got mushrooms there that that absolutely should not be sold they belong in the garbage so that's kind of what happened with you i'm sure the costco person was not sensitive to that and should have been selling those in that happens a lot was it the mushroom he basically growing she talked in itself it looked like a different species like it was well I think what was going on is you see it was probably a whitish mold yep and that is just the shitake it's it's still

00:23:46 > alive basically and so because it's in a high humidity high carbon dioxide environment which it could have been or maybe if just sitting in this box and it's kind of warm or it will just start to regenerate the mycelial stage and when that starts happening are they safe to eat they just look ugly well you know what they are safe to eat but but you have to be careful that stage I wouldn't eat them and part of what happens is is with mushrooms is as they reach a certain point thing more than anything else you have to look look out for is just a bacteria got it and you'll see that on on like it's a white button mushrooms they'll start to get brown spots on them shitake mushrooms you look at the gills and they'll start to get brown spots a slight your real growth okay and what kind of bacteria is strong enough to grow on a fungus it seems like fungi and bacteria I've been fighting since time immemorial with little chemical weapons at each other what what happened what happens to the bacteria when there's some competition going on

00:24:47 > on the mushroom oh well you know what the mushroom is able to i mean i look at it almost as a cooperative dance where you know for example like mushrooms in nature what happens with mushrooms in nature that mycelium is out there and is spreading through all of that material in nature consuming it and and it's it's a competition with all sorts of microorganisms out there there's got bacteria they've got other fungi imperfect fungi fungi they don't produce mushrooms it's competing and everybody's vying for these nutrients and a lot of times what happens is is with these nutrients 'as is they the mushroom consume something when it's done somebody else comes in and starts to consume it even more so there's a constant process of decomposition going on and that that's kind of in a way the beauty of what's going on in our

00:25:50 > environment is that everything is in a constant state of breakdown so to speak but it's a breakdown that is regeneration and that's a just an absolute constant out there and I i love it when I go out mushroom hunting and seeing all of this going on around me I people have actually called me like anti mushroom because I might be cautious of eating these things because you don't know they're going to do to you but I'm actually like a Paul stamens fan and I do I understand we'd all be dead without and fungus in our environment it's really important but I i also just filmed a documentary called moldy quick plug moldy movie calm if you haven't seen it and I interviewed a whole bunch of people about common soil fungi growing in buildings and and to some extent in our food and what that's doing to people and these aren't actually mushrooms you know these are molds yes molds that's right that's right these are kind of the same family and it we all know that there are tons of so-called toadstools and

00:26:51 > poisonous mushrooms and things like that yep yep yep well yeah and you know what I would say is is yeah I understand and I totally agree I mean there are things out there for example there are fungi that grow into grain and and as you know there are there aflatoxins out there there are these toxins that you have to be very careful about so for this is this is definitely a concern especially with our food and we don't want to be consuming those kind of things and nothing to certainly you don't want to be an environment where there are a lot of spores being produced that you might breathe in there's actually there's actually something out there called mushroom harvesters lon because and this is visit the beauty of the button mushroom the button mushroom had is grown and harvested before it matures and the gills start to produce spores so you don't have that in button mushroom

00:27:52 > farms but if you're in an oyster mushroom farm the fact is is that you've got to have a respirator on because the oyster mushroom is an open mushroom almost right in the beginning so the gills are there and as it matures it is producing a lot of spores and and it's the same thing like on a ganoderma farm in China it's really interesting because you go in and as they are maturing and this is a greenhouse it is absolutely wall to wall big beautiful reishi mushrooms but it is filled with this brown cloud of spores Wow and and and and you're looking and they're going my god okay these mushrooms are producing a lot and and the interesting part about it is is that that was what was going on in the 90s but today they are actually harvesting the reishi spores and the reishi spores have now become a very big medicinal product in China and

00:28:54 > when I was just there last year the harvesting methods they no longer allow the spores to to come out and up into the air within the house now they actually put a paper around the mushroom at a certain stage they they have a plastic bag under it and the spores fall down into this plastic bag Wow and so when they go to harvest the mushroom they have a bag end and at this point in time the spores are actually more valuable than the mushroom so I've heard about like fractured spore mushroom extracts coming from China but I haven't even tried one because we actually don't digest spores well at all no that's right that's absolutely right spore spores generally speaking will go right through us we cannot digest spores and however they believe that if they can they call them cracked spores if they

00:29:55 > can crack that she'll that then they can get at the compounds inside which they consider to be highly medicinal are they I've looked at some of the research I'm uncertain at this point and we're we're exploring this where we're looking at ways that we can actually analyze these spores find out what's in there there's claims that their high-end triterpenes there's claims that their beta glucans in there I don't really know for certain I've kind of just stayed away because you know what happens so often Dave is that is that there are products that go to market that get hyped up so much that trying to figure out what is real and what is just marketing hype becomes difficult and reishi spores are one of those products where you get marketers

00:30:56 > out there and they're selling these things left right in the center for a lot of money in China making a lot of money on it and so I just step back and go okay I've got to wait look at the research a little more closely I've got to do some analysis on my own we're doing that we'll we'll see you down the line whether or not it's real or not okay that that's a nice cautious tone and I tend to have that as well where you'd want to see some research about it and I haven't seen much there I just heard that it's popular which is maybe a bad thing well no yeah it's and you know what I I'm one of those people that truly believes in scientific verification of active compounds and and so this is one of the things in the whole mushroom industry that's been lacking all along is is there have not been enough tests to be able to actually get a let's just call it a fingerprint a

00:31:57 > actual activity fingerprint and that's what I've done in my white paper was produced an activity fingerprint one of the other tests we did was for a compound called air gosta roll orchestral is a really interesting compound I don't you don't know if you've heard about it but a GOST at all is is a corollary to cholesterol that we have except in fungi is called ergosterol aghast are all when you expose mushroom tissue to UV light air gaastra turns into vitamin D which is is just amazing I mean it's just it's just a wonderful thing you're not going to get a lot of vitamin D just by eating mushrooms as they are because most mushrooms are either grown indoors or once they're harvested and they go right into a cooler and then off they go to the supermarket you can take those dried shitake put them out in the sunlight and that will convert some of their gaastra all to vitamin D I've even seen

00:32:59 > supplements that now are based on mushroom tissue vitamin vitamin d2 supplements that are based on mushroom tissue and I just think that is fantastic one one of the things though well let me just take a little story about that the Chinese traditionally have taken their shitake mushrooms and when they harvest them they lay them out on screens and they dry them in the Sun sun-dried they've got the sun dried shitake and so here's something they've been doing for the longest time drying them in the Sun which is producing a high vitamin D shitake in the last 10 years since they've gotten more industrialized what do they do with shitake now they put it into a indoor mechanical dryer forced air dryer they doing just exactly the opposite of what they should be doing with those shitake but this is sort of

00:34:01 > like well here we are we're in an industry we want to be more industrialized we want to be have all this great equipment here new equipment this is how they do it in the West they're changing to that and I'm just looking at it going this is a huge mistake so sometimes the traditional methods are better and I know that animal source vitamin d3 is pretty easy to get and vitamin d2 is just less biologically active and potentially harmful and there's one company was making vitamin d3 I think from shitake concentrate of some sort but it's it's frightfully expensive but if yeah I I haven't heard of then what I I would be surprised if they're making d3 because d3 is is I've never heard of that actually coming from a mushroom at all I've just seen it coming from from d2 coming from a mushroom so I don't know detail you know i I've looked at it a bit and I'm not sure of the research you've looked at but what I've seen of d2 is is most of the tests show that

00:35:03 > it's it's active I'm not sure whether they know that some studies say it's just as active as d three other studies say no so whether or not you know I'd have to see in fact i'd love to see some of the some of the so you're looking at that talks about d2 and any sort of negative it comes from the vitamin D Research Council and dr. kennels work and dr. kennels spoken a couple times with the antiaging nonprofit that I run and it has spent like 30-something years just really a primary vitamin D researcher so he has a bias towards vitamin D but he's done some some writing about died vitamin D you mean vitamin d3 from other sorties well least been looking at d2 and d3 and just looking at the rate of I believe from them we're like hip fracture from d2 versus d3 and few other things like that aside vitamin d2 was maybe displacing d3 interested which is which is interesting and I was just looking here cuz now i'm i'm i'm wondering about

00:36:04 > the d3 and it looks like there's a company called source of life that claims to have a vitamin d3 from mushroom but there's some questions about that I yeah okay I would be very questionable I would say it's very questionable product I've never heard of that I don't think it's possible it is a completely different compound you know it's a cholecalciferol versus ergo called several different different compounds got it is so I'm looking at some stuff here the company has never responded at least according to one of the other websites about it so it sounds like it might have been v 2 d 2 but they were claiming d3 and I stand corrected in that usually d3 it turns out likened can make d3 but not mushrooms so I didn't know that I'm just googling it's obviously talked so the trivial things we learn while talking oh oh I know I mean that that's the wonderful thing about talking to people about various subjects you know and and you know I've been kind of you know in the last couple

00:37:05 > years I really don't alot and there's there's so much information out there you know that you've been in it you see it in whatever particular field and it's so hard to keep up on and yet it's it's important and and most of us you know we can be brought in a certain sense in what we know and and at the same time we kind of specialized to some degree that's true and you're a very deep specialist in this and I want to make sure that the people listening get some real actionable things out of this can you walk me through the medicinal value of what's in mushrooms like I want to talk specifically so people understand what about beta glucans and cell walls so I'll just kind of go through the list of things in mushrooms tell me what they do or why we should care about them so well there's been a lot of study on beta glucans over the last 40 or 50 years and really they have shown now after all this time the beta glucans actually will activate our immune cells and beta

00:38:11 > glucan beta commands out there the one specifically that are in mushrooms are called beta 1316 glue cans and that is just the configuration of the beta glucan and that's very important because other beta glucans out there are not active in the same way like their beta glucans in oats in cereal grains but there are those are beta one four glucans they don't have the same immunological activity that these beta glucans from mushrooms do and it has a lot to do with the branching of it just like different mushrooms have different levels of activities but this beta glucan makes up the cell walls of mushrooms it is it is the major component in the cell wall of the mushroom so so that's a that's something that ultimately we want to break down with our extracts and get it into a form that actually people can can't get

00:39:14 > benefits from because because one of the things about mushrooms is that they do have this this substance called chitin in their cell walls and you may have heard about height and I was actually going to ask you about cutting next so yeah end up type of ya kai is really an interesting thing you know it's uh it's a polymer that it's it's elastic but it's a super strength II in a way it's almost like the cab are the natural world it's a super strength kind of polymer and its present in mushroom cell walls and it's part of what it's a structural component it's what helps mushrooms to a decreased stand up a lot of people have said without I think good reason that that all of mushrooms are into Jess tible because of this chitin that's simply not true mushrooms are not as digestible as many other vegetables because of chitin but all that chitin does is is make them

00:40:16 > a little less digestible but to a degree that's not a bad thing because one of the benefits of mushrooms is it's very high in fiber and a lot of that fiber is the chitin that's moving through the system and some of the other cell wall components and that is up being a prebiotic so mushrooms are actually a very good prebiotic so so the chitin actually makes up somewhere around five percent of cell whereas the the the beta glucan component is upwards of sixty percent of the cell wall so the chitin is a small percentage but it is there people you also might think of chitin is something that helps to make up an insect or even a crustacean shell but the difference is is that that chitin binds with calcium carbonate in the and without crustacean so most of that crustacean shall I mean a mushroom doesn't have a a hard carapace or a hard shell like that crustacean does so so

00:41:18 > you can't say oh gee they're both made up of a chiton so that the same not at all so chitin is one of those compounds that we have to think about but it's not something where you go you can't digest mushrooms that's simply not true okay that makes good sense what about we talked a little bit about triterpenoids but tell me what triterpenoids is secondary metabolites do like why would people want to take those what are the benefits well you know triterpenes have been have been found to have different actions and one of them is certainly they have shown immunological anti-cancer actions they're also used for liver in fact I spoke to a traditional Chinese doctor in China he said ganoderma he said ray she was his number one liver herb so it's good for cleansing the liver its anti-bacterial

00:42:25 > antifungal antiviral it's got a number of different actions so and that's really what makes ray she's so unique ray she has these triterpenes triterpenes or something that that was one of the first analytical methods that my company developed in the 1990s was for triterpenes we've been measuring triterpenes and reishi mushrooms since 1994 we did it in lab at University of British Columbia with a a professor emeritus there dr. Neil towers but if there was any one mushroom that people should think about I would say it's reishi mushroom because it's very high in beta glucan so you're getting the immunological action the beta glucans and you're also getting these other actions of the triterpenes and and so it's kind of like the the well I hate to say king of mushrooms here because I've heard so many people talk about this and

00:43:26 > and the funny part of that is that in the 1970s a book was written about shitake that came out of Japan it was called shitake king of mushrooms and then in the 1980s and early 90s ray she was the king of mushrooms and then in the 1990s a company came along with maitake and and my talk he became the king of mushrooms and now I'm out there and people are saying the new king of mushrooms is chaga and I'm like and you know somebody even said chaga is the king of mushrooms and Ray she's the queen haha if you look at the history of Chinese there's been more than one different dynasties so we just have mushroomed Isaac us right well and I just find it amusing because I think a lot of people just haven't been around enough to have experienced all these different king of mushrooms I have so so now if someone were to come to you and say like I want to take one mushroom that's going to do the most for me and what which one and

00:44:29 > how should I take it what would you say well again again I would say reishi mushroom and I would say and how would for how would you have them take it I would look for an extract I would look for and to be clear at making sure that what we're looking for is an actual mushroom that has been extracted and and if possible something that has been measured for triterpenes something that has been measured for beta glucans very important if you can't find that somewhere maybe you can find actually you know if you're on the west coast you can probably find reishi mushrooms themselves and and be able to make them up but otherwise if you're looking for a bottle product that's what I look for I would stay away I would look very closely at these mycelium products look at the labels look very closely beware of what you're buying if you want to buy these mycelium products fine but be aware that that's not a mushroom be aware that it's got grain in there so i would say Risha the other thing I would

00:45:31 > say is is I think there's a place for pudding let's say three mushrooms together in a formula like like reishi shiitake maitake i think that there's this good reason to do that the other mushroom that's really great out there is tremendum mushroom make sure you're getting an extract of that mushroom if you're if you're not you're probably not getting enough of the medicinal compounds to do you any good and and the other thing is don't expect effects immediately don't expect those benefits to come tomorrow don't don't think that tomorrow you're you're sore throat and your cold is going to be gone it's not you have to take these regularly for a period of time and the beauty of these is that these are what are considered adaptogen these are actually herbs and compounds that are taken over a long period of time you

00:46:33 > don't have to worry about I've got to stop taking them or anything you can take them for a long period of time and and they will give they will actually provide you with these benefits that are our anti stress they they balance the different systems of the body mushrooms are fantastic in that way and and and again the beauty of mushrooms is that they're one of the one of what I would call the first nutraceuticals they are food as medicine they are both so there's some of the first you've got shitake mushrooms that were have been been used in China for thousands of years food medicine maitake same thing it's a it's really a great food that can also become your medicine well thank you so much Jeff for coming on the show and just going deep on mushrooms and helping people understand when you're buying a mycelium product are actually not getting real mushrooms which is which is

00:47:34 > a problem and we're not recommending one brand over another you're a mushroom ingredient supplier your far that's right far up the chain so this isn't like i am you you or anyone trying to say this is better than another but just saying that there's widespread it's not technically mislabeling because some of them extra say mycelium but you think you're getting something that's active and you're probably spending thirty or forty bucks or it may not even say my selling it may just say the name of the mushroom but you think you're getting it and you're not as so that's absolutely I've found that that mushroom extracts can be really really effective and some of the Chinese medicine people I've worked with acupuncturist use them to great effect I've also taken a lot of farmers that don't do anything so i think there's you've written the white paper this 30-page piece of research that shows why you went out and you you looked at actually what's in 40 different things and i appreciate that you did that at your own expense and they you published it yeah you had a little economic incentive because you make the good stuff but still putting members out there is something that I that I really value so thanks for doing that thank you yeah and I appreciate you

00:48:38 > having me on the show I mean you know we could probably go on for a long time there's there's a lot of material to cover and and I'm really happy that you're able to have me Dave because it's it's something we're again there there's a lot to know there's not a lot of information out that there's a lot of information that is just erroneous and so I want people to understand what's going on here I want them to understand what is a good mushroom product how to be an educated consumer that's really what it's all about how to be and it's not easy believe me it's not easy when you're looking at the show when you're seeing a dozen different products well you you live on Vancouver Island same place I do you're up in tofino which is one of the most scenic parts of the world but if you ever make it to the southern part of island we'll sit down and over a cup of bulletproof coffee at bulletproof labs here and how about further chat about mushrooms because it's always it's always interesting to talk with people who spent their life studying something like that okay thanks for living on the islands very thanks for being bulletproof radio thank you very much Dave if you appreciated today's show all you got to do is go out

there and find some quality mushroom extract and quit buying the cheap stuff because it doesn't work have an awesome day check out the next episode of bulletproof radia because we've got something really special coming up for you I'm not going to tell you what it is and if you haven't had a chance to check out bulletproof conference calm go for it because october twenty third through October 25th in Pasadena California we're going to have almost or about a thousand people showing up to the bulletproof conference to hack themselves to play with big toys and to hear from some of the world leading scientists about how you can improve your cognitive personal and physical performance it's going to be fun and you can't hang out with cool people anyway so join me there I'm excited about it have an awesome day Oh