Mark Sisson: His Primal Blueprint –

Video | Dave Asprey

00:00:00 > hey everyone this is Dave Asprey with bulletproof executive today's cool fact of the day is that when wild chimpanzees share their food they have high levels of oxytocin in their urine researchers compared those levels to win they simply ate together in a group but didn't share their food as well as other things like grooming that stimulate oxytocin when they ate their food together the oxytocin level was elevated in both the giver of the food and the receiver and this is why you should eat your high fat grass-fed meals together today's guest doesn't really require an introduction it is the one and only mark Sisson mark is the founder of marks daily Apple the most well known paleo and primal website on the planet with huge huge numbers of comments in the forum I've learned a lot myself there

00:01:02 > and he's the founder of primal nutrition the author of the primal blueprint and overall just an amazing guy an amazing researcher and he's got an amazing set of abs that he loves to show off all over the place on the web mark it's an honor to have you on the show today it's a pleasure being here Dave thanks for having me now can you talk about primal what is a primal lifestyle how do you differentiate it from you know other other kind of similar things that are out there right now like give us the the mark Sisson 3:21 for people who are listening but maybe don't know about it yeah the primal blueprint was my my complete lifestyle viewpoint that sort of started with an ancestral evolutionary based model and extrapolated it out into what amounts to all facets of life so my intention is to educate people in how the human body is designed through evolution what the

00:02:04 > expectations of our genes are and from there to be able to make intelligent decisions it's quite that it's that simple it's really it's about about choosing different ways of living one's life for different inputs throughout and doing so with with a knowledge based in the evolutionary lens if you will and this just because I was looking for a cool brand to to encapsulate what I talked about the primal blueprint became that brand now I've been using primal for 25 years I my first company was called primal urge press back in the mid 80s and then I started primal nutrition in 1996 and I had primal fuel and I just trademark primal kitchen for a new food line that we're introducing so yeah so but primal in in some regards sort of it expands out from the basic paleo concept in that it does encompass other lifestyle elements like sleep sun exposure play how you use your brain and all of those things that that actually

00:03:06 > not only make us human but provide the kinds of input that allow for a strong lean fit happy productive healthy loving human being that is that is remarkable and you just brought something to mind I've never thought of were you ever into like the primal scream therapy no no but I mean you know every time I do a an analysis of a new term that used primal of course primal scream is one of the first things that comes up it's you know I was it interesting it's certainly an interesting concept and I've looked into it but I was never I never went down that path i did´t once I was at some personal growth thing and there was a dude there who was really into it and he's like no you have to scream and I really tried the primal scream thing and I have to say it totally it has nothing to do with what you do but I was wondering like going back in time you have you you have almost twenty years more experience than I do in life and you know I'm 42 you're 61 or

00:04:10 > thereabout in July at 61 in July so so you call it 18 years so I realized that you might have gone through back when when that was really big so so you're not you're not a part of that and it doesn't surprise me that you're not a part of that you're you're totally separate and I love the way you do that by the way just the way you talked about it being because it is about what's going on inside the body in the way we evolved and there's something else as a young guy I think you had was it arthritis in your late 20s IBS upper respiratory tract infections yeah I mean I really was the compendium of all of the afflictions that people list when they decide to embark on a paleo experiment of one and my own situation was very exemplary of the of the times I was a runner and I was pretty good at it because I wasn't good at anything else and that's you know it's funny because people say oh mark you know you're you're you're lean because you're a runner and I go no I'm a runner because I was lean you know it's sort of a self-selecting kind of process there but

00:05:11 > in order to fuel the running habit that I had created for myself and the endorphin Jones that I was creating on a daily basis you know took a lot of carbohydrates and that the order of the day was not just complex carbohydrates but lots of heart healthy whole grains and beer beer was a was sort of the go-to carbohydrate for runners in those days well the the accumulation of the of that lifestyle of a thousand grams a day of inflammatory foods was osteoarthritis and the grains themselves had been probably the cause of my IBS since the age of 14 yeah so that had been a long-standing issue that I thought was mostly result of my being a type-a kind of guy and carrying my stress in my gut which is what some of the Louise Hay books would have would have you told me no are you a louise hay fan you know I'm up here I'm a fan of Louise Hay simply because she like any of the trendsetters and any of the pioneers you know she she sort of looked at life

00:06:15 > from a different point of view and with with regard to first of all I'm a fan because I based my publishing company on her model oh wow Hay House has become a huge publishing company with a woman who started self-publishing her own books so I'm very impressed with what she's done there but also as we get to paleo 3.0 we will start to see the amount of influence that our thoughts have on on how we live our lives and how we recreate ourselves and how we generate hormones and how we manifest illnesses and so with one of Louise Hays basic premises that a lot of your illnesses or you know what what is ailing you what you would call your issues have to do with with psychological factors much more than physical manifestations of some dizzy actual disease process that came from the outside in fact she would say they generate all from the inside and I think there's a lot to be said for that and that's it if that's an area of exploration one example just not to

00:07:18 > ramble on too long too too much in these early minutes here but one example would be the number of people in the paleo world or the low-carb world who have hit a plateau and still have 50 pounds to lose and can't do that yes and I would go back and say you know okay we now have to look at your at your psyche and we have to look at your your the history of your imprint and inputs over a lifetime and you know what are you doing to hold on to that weight that has nothing to do with the number of calories you're taking it it is so amazing to hear that that you're in to Louise's work it's something that we use during the 40 years of Zen the neurofeedback kind of brain training stuff and one of the reasons that heart rate variability is a part of what I do with clients because you know you can do so much biologically but your emotions and biology are pretty well interlinked at this point that's impressive mark I appreciate that about you thank you all right Wow I totally did not know we were going to talk about the psychology of

00:08:20 > food and I'm so glad we did let's see it's like it's like being at a candy store you know when you're a kid and you actually eat candy which I never did and thinking like which one do I want to ask next so it's kind of interesting that that you had these problems I was 300 pounds 100 pounds overweight similar set of problems plus Lyme disease toxic mold exposure of CFS ad D all those things and Chris crests are similar thing he got really really sick in Central or South America so it seems like a lot of the leaders in this new movement have all experienced it's really kind of crappy health like my arthritis when I was 14 was in my knees and you know it was grain-based obviously and you know autoimmunity why do so many of the people who have become you know strong and focused on this and and are willing to talk about it why are we all the ones who just had to like deal with all this crap do you mean what's the idea there well I have a couple of thoughts on that first of all it's kind of like that I'm I ran because I was skinny I wasn't skinny because I ran I think a lot of us were frustrated

00:09:22 > enough with the conventional wisdom and you know chris has a science background Rob Wolfe has a science background I have a science background so so you know I was in a mostly cynic so let's put that on the table so you know I spent thousands of dollars to through the traditional medical system with zero really positive results so I started to do my own research and that's what led me to where I am today so you know people have said well mark you know if you had it to do all over again would you go back and be a marathon runner that you know ate a low-carb or cyclic ketogenic diet would you train differently you know how would things happen and I go well you know I'm not sure I would do anything differently because I'm so appreciative of how I got to where I am today and I have so integrated this knowledge and I have so crocked it and that's you know there's a there's a more than a couple of nuances there and I so gotten this intuitively that I know how to eat I know how to workout I know how much Sun to get before I burn and then just enough to

00:10:23 > get vitamin C or vitamin D I know how much sleep to get so you know I I would say that most of us do Chris crecer Rob Wolf's we we came to this out of frustration and it's there's a there's a real value in that kind of information that comes from a person who was who did it themselves you know who went through that experiment of one and got those results now the second point I want to make is that I don't think we're that unique I think that most of America has some litany or list of issues that literally run their lives and whether it's you know an injury that keeps nagging or whether it's a little bit of mild arthritis or whether it's a little bit of irritable bowel syndrome or whether it's a stuffy nose all the time or they're too itchy skin on occasion if you were to ask every person in in this country you know are you in are you a hundred percent happy with your health I bet 90% of will say no there's there are some things I want to address it's

00:11:24 > like that in in my background studying computer science and complex systems made me aware of some things in what was happening in my body and because I come from Silicon Valley where like the cultures Silicon Valley ish and you're very entrepreneurial but very tech focused when I was willing to sort of stand up and say like these are the things going on with me and my pants don't fit anymore not because I put on weight but because it fell off so rapidly that it it became really clear that there's different I don't call the business cultures or just regional variations and how much people care about their health and how much they talk about how open they are to it and I think I was in a place where especially the time it was like screw your health like just burn yourself out just do it and I had done a lot of that do you find when you when you fly around you do a lot of conferences when you talk with people are there areas where people are just more open to what you have to talk about versus people are like what well my body is fine you only have 50 pounds of beer gut like what's what's the variation regionally well I mean I would

00:12:26 > say generally the variation is I live in Southern California where there is there's a lot more vanity that drives lifestyle yeah and as a result you know people spend a lot of time outside they like to get tan they like to be fit versus maybe other parts of the country where you know the conditions are harsher they're not surrounded by cameras or you know that that culture that would suggest that you you need to look right all the time so I live in a sort of an artificial fishbowl of people who are probably more fit than the general population of the United States but as I travel around the country and I do talk to people you know I I do sense that that even you look at them somebody who's even like ostensibly quite fit and quite healthy and you'll find out that there's something going on that there's some digestive issue or there's some breathing issue or there's some you know arthritis issue or you know whatever it um you know that's the that's the nature of this society that we've created for ourselves is that we have these gene

00:13:28 > recipes that really do want us to be as lean and strong and happy and healthy as we possibly can be but we've bombarded ourselves with these inputs that switch on genes that cause us to store fat and become diabetic and and decrease the bone density for instance and we and we switch off the genes that we want that increase immunity that build that build muscle and so on and so forth so and so funny because I've wondered and you in particular Dave I've wondered why no one has taken on this mantle because I wanted to call myself gene Hackman I'm sure gene Hackman had something to say about that yeah I think so but it really is about discovering these hidden genetic switches that we all have and tapping into that you know harnessing that that immense personal power that we have to recreate regenerate renew rebuild ourselves on a daily basis I don't know if you've ever had a chance to come across my first book the better baby book mark it's it's in alignment

00:14:29 > like when I started the research board I truly had never heard of primal or paleo I started in like the 2004 time timeline looking at more Western a price and a bunch of other things but ended up being 1,300 references about epigenetics because I wanted to have two kids I was let's see 300 pounds I had a DD formally diagnosed I had all the symptoms of Asperger's when I was a young man my my whole family on my dad's side is like riddled with Asperger's and that sort of thing and we're having our kids at age you know 39 or 42 for my wife and she was PCOS so I was like oh my god I don't I don't want this to happen as a loving father like what is everything I could possibly do and epigenetics appeared to be the answer have you seen the better baby book by any chance I didn't send you a copy ahead of time I I'm sorry I have not seen it I have now 700 a Leo book stacked in my back from that that I have to read so I'm not going to offer to send it to you unless you ask I'm in this out I have in fact I've interviewed a few authors from your from your print

00:15:31 > lately on the podcast so I get it the epigenetics thing both as a way to control or hack your own biology as well as that of your kids name your grandkids it seems like it it should that discovery is one of the most important ones in the last you know 30 40 years of health research and I feel like there's a lot of well we should wait and see but like we're humans waiting and seeing means we'll be dead by the time we see yeah so let's do what looks like it is best what's your take on those very long study cycle things like that how would you approach epigenetics well first of all I would agree that epigenetics is the key discovery point in the last 20 years this recognition that we're not at the mercy of the gene set that we were given we're not doomed to have heart attacks because our parents had heart attacks we're not doomed to get breast cancer just because we have brca1 or brca2 this is again the the immense personal power that we that we possess

00:16:32 > knowing how certain genes are expressed based on inputs that we provide choices again that we make and you know your life is just about choices in Silicon Valley the choice is to order a pizza out to have a you know a case of coca-cola to program until you fall asleep under the desk and wake up and program some more you know that's a choice and and if that's if truly that's your choice and you're willing to accept all of the potential negative consequences then Who am I to argue with your choice but again my job as I as I perceive it is to educate people to understand the ramifications of each of these choices and to say okay what are the what's the best greatest likelihood that you will become healthier and happier and leaner and fitter and stronger given certain inputs that I can provide so I'm not suggesting that primal blueprint is the only way I'm just suggesting that it's a way that has looked at epigenetics and and virtually every study now that that you read

00:17:34 > always looks at the gene what happens at the level of the gene whatever study they're looking at they're looking at what genes were turned on and what genes were turned off so that's literally epigenetics I think what we're going to see my prediction is in the next few years we are going to see you know the the heritability of the epigenome as being a critical factor and this this concept that you can not only take the the the genetic recipe that you've been given but that you can also take some of the on off switches that you've already employed in your own life and transmit them into the future generation it's a wickedly exciting area of science I did everything in my power as as a father and as a scientist to do that with my kids and to write down a program for people to be able to do it the problem is there's a lot we don't know but we do know what is the effect of stress on that Patino but certainly unhealthy chronic stress The effect of positive short-term high-intensity stress is pretty well-established

00:18:36 > so sometimes it's let's make our best educated guess and one argument there says well what if you do it wrong I'm like well if you don't make your best educated guess you also might do it wrong so maybe you'll just do it less wrong and we'll move the whole species in the right direction I know I mean you know I Wayne Gretzky's famous for making this statement you know you miss 100% of the shots you don't take amen what a great yeah okay so you're you're online with that thing now this is a something that unfortunately not of people not a lot of people ask about but what about like this idea of eugenics where you know is it fair that some people might do this other people might not do you have any thoughts on like the morality of taking advantage of epigenetics or not taking advantage of it yeah I do and you know I really haven't have to be very careful how I position myself because my views are my views and and and yet because I'm viewed as a as a nice guy and a thought leader

00:19:37 > and so on that I have to be very you know concise about my views but in terms of the overall concept for instance of genetic testing for for fetal testing I I'm all for that sort of preventative measures if you will I think that there's there's a lot to be said for that I think that you know we not not to go too far down this rabbit hole but we have entered a period starting about 50 years ago of the evolution where where we keep people alive in any state or form because it's considered the right thing to do and I mean you know this is not just I'm just talking about the epigenome and the genome and encourage peeping people to procreate so there's no selective pressure and that's really what I'm saying there's no more selective pressure so everybody has the right to have babies and that's great but at some point if there's no selective pressure then then what happens is the genome gets weaker and weaker to withstand the rigors of

00:20:39 > whatever environment that we create for it that's again where we're gonna see a lot of this epigenome this this heritability of the epigenome where the mistakes that you or your parents made will now transfer to your kids and and it'll it'll exacerbate itself over time so you know it's it's a it's a very interesting discussion I don't want again it's it's a highly volatile kind of discussion but the bottom line is it makes you I want to take advantage of the science to make my life and the life of my children better and to the extent that I can do that and not play God I'm you know I'm gonna I'm gonna do the best that I can it's kind of funny because you know you're your quintessential cavemen named croc in homage to a Robert Heinlein I hope but a croc back when they discovered fire you got to imagine croc as the guy who was like I think I'll use this fire to keep my kids warm during winter and the guy who didn't reproduce was the guy said no no I won't use fire

00:21:40 > its new science I can't do that so yeah this is a continuation of hundreds of thousands of years of of let's apply technology towards ourselves and and our offspring and it's interesting because I this is kind of a personal thing for me I found out when I was about I think 32 or something I only have one kidney and I have spina bifida and I was evolved that way or unevolved I was born that way and why did that happen let's see I have genes now we know about these genes and so likely my mother does about folic acid and mother was on a high sugar diet because well that's what you did back in the 70s so she likely had folic acid problems and she was on a high sugar diet which depletes folic acid what does that mean it means my lower vertebra aren't as fused as they should be and I likely have some congenital brain stem differences that I wouldn't have had so one argument would be like well that's you know that's unfair that sucks Dave the other argument is like well I don't

00:22:42 > want my kids to have that so I'm going to use genetic testing I'm gonna use optimized diet and I'm really fortunate that I live in the Western world and I can afford to do it and it's not fair that my kids may have an advantage over someone whose mother ate lots of sugar and had folic acid problems but sometimes it isn't fair but I mean how could you not do that for your kids like I just don't understand so that's what happened about this yeah no I mean that's it's it's that simple it really is about how can I create the best life for myself look I'm the prelude print isn't about recreating ancient history and camping out in your backyard and hunting your neighbors pets and and living without electricity it's about it's about understanding how we are wired and how you know what the factory default setting of our genes was at birth and and how we can best create the human being that we want to be harnessing whatever technology we can access and if the the interesting thing is that it's a little bit very low-tech and a little bit very high-tech so the very low-tech would be you know grass-fed beef turns

00:23:45 > out that's one of the healthiest things you can eat that's a very low-tech way of growing food it's even lower tech than farming you know agriculture and wheat and soy and everything else my best example of low tech which I just have to laugh at has to do with it's it's a serious topic but the number of people that I've met who had Crohn's or who have had some serious ulcerative colitis and have you know they've gone to the doctor the gastroenterologist who did the tests and said okay what we're going to do first is we're gonna give you some antibiotics and then we're gonna put you on some prednisone and that doesn't work and then over time we're going to take out part of your bowel and then that doesn't work and ultimately the number of people who have been cured completely with a fecal transplant how low-tech can you get then a shit milkshake you know it's something that I've thought of of actually trying flat out because it is so low-tech and my

00:24:47 > biggest concern there is knowing who the donor should be and of course getting their consent for something like that I I would be willing to do something like that although I would probably I don't know the worst way to take it hopefully in a capsule or something but yeah I'm sure you could find an enemy who would consent exactly it gives a whole new aspect to that certain type of eating grin that you might have yeah I've been intrigued by that and ways to reduce my own autoimmunity and my inflammation levels are dramatically lower than they were as the lab tests all show but they're still not as good as I'd like so I've tried pig whipworm eggs as an example of that you can actually take these orally what's your thought on helman therapy using higher-level parasites have you even looked into it I don't know only look into attend gently think it's interested research have seen again these are these are really low-tech alternatives where the medical industry has taken us down a road where

00:25:49 > the same people I talked about hood who had undergone that conventional therapy are now $300,000 into their into their journey you know when in fact again a very low low cost low-tech solution what was the best solution so I think there's gonna be a lot more of this reversal with in Madison well first of all let's just let's just tell it like it is most of medicine has to do with fixing issues that were caused by lifestyle choices in the first place so 80% of what people are dealing with whether it's obesity diabetes polycystic ovarian syndrome arthritis heart disease these are these are clearly they have a dietary and other lifestyle etiology at the root so they'll either be completely cured by some lifestyle changes or significantly mitigated with some lifestyle changes so and those are all low tech solutions you could and I've said this many times if if people ate the way you and I suggest if everybody in the country ate the way within 18 months you would have

00:26:50 > a trillion dollar less spent on medical intervention in this country and that's and it's a low-tech concept now at the other end of the spectrum we still have amazing high-tech stuff going on I don't doubt that I will need artificial knees or artificial hips at some point in my life particularly if I continue to play Ultimate Frisbee at the pace that I do so you know there's some amazing things done at the high end of the of the high tech but so much of what ails people today can be fixed with a very easy simple low-tech low-cost solution do you use things like lasers and external oxygen and some of the other bio hacking technologies you know I I don't I was in Las Vegas last weekend for a couple of days for my daughter's birthday and something we brought some friends in and they wanted to go partying and man can I tell you about some clubs in Las Vegas

00:27:51 > but but they and she called me one day and they were all the oxygen bar because it had they'd stayed out those six the night before the morning before and then they you know haven't gotten my sleep so I thought that that's an interesting sort of NFL type recovery system you know every once in a while I'll tap into some of these potential technologies but but the laser stuff you know not really and you know I'm I don't know I'm still kind of a Luddite with regard to some of this hacking stuff well I I'm coming to LA a lot more often than I used to because I have some of my team down there and if you're ever up for it I'd be happy to bring the laser along and the the reason that I think lasers are kind of cool one of them anyway is that they catalyzes the synthesis of ATP so you get like a local ATP upgrade sort of like you know pouring in the octane booster just for a little while on those cells which lets them do a little bit more out of Ag and just run more

00:28:52 > efficiently when they're in the healing process right and it it's kind of it you can feel it working which is been phenomenal for me and I stumbled across using lasers about a dozen or so years ago for whiplash because I'd had it twice the first time it took me a year to recover I was also eating gluten still which is why the inflammation would subside the second time a friend brought a laser and literally after six minutes of lasering I felt everything just like tingling and loosening up and all the sudden I said I have my movement of my head back this this is impossible it cannot be and it kind of opened my eyes up to some of that other stuff and I I hope that over time we see this fusion of you know grass-fed which is a so important for the environment for our own selves and proper fuelling along with these other things that maybe didn't exist 100 years ago you could sit in the Sun but you don't get the same effects from that right now so I feel I feel like the future is pretty bright because there are all these things we can do now that we didn't have access to and maybe some

00:29:54 > of those can stave off a knee surgery for ten years and things like that and and that could get you you know over the hump to a certain point really all right now I'm ready for a new knee just a thought no I agree I agree well let's see I want to talk about toxins in food specifically lectins from legumes I have found with the people that that I work with a lot of CEO types and with people on the blogs when people eliminate those they usually improve a few people don't feel any difference when they eliminate them so what's your take on on lectins and food and how important they are well it's it's interesting that over the past eight years since I've really been writing about this and researching deeper and deeper into this you know the initial thought was lectins are horrible there there's there's nothing good about them at all you should avoid any form of lectins but as so often happens with

00:30:55 > investigation into diet you ultimately find out that everything is bad for you yep number one I'm so little to this you know I mean so it's like okay I just realized that there's no one food that's good for everybody and there's there's a you know it's basically it's a dose response kind of ultimately kind of issue with regard to lectins in general some are worse than others right and so you know I think all of these foods exist on a spectrum of worst to less egregious or good on the spectrum of grains I would not encourage anyone to eat you know red dwarf wheat I mean it's a there's probably nothing no redeeming value in it at all so weed barley rye on the one end of the spectrum and then on the other end you know white rice probably harmless the cheap source of calories converts to glucose pretty readily quinoa people say oh can I have quinoa on the primal blueprint can have whatever you want you just have to know that the different nuances so with

00:31:56 > regard to certain types of lectins that are found for instance in legumes depending on the nature of the bean and other there are other issues besides electon SCI mean they contain some pretty powerful soluble fibers that can have an effect on your gut biome so well what I'm starting to see is that maybe there are some people who are doing better with legumes than others may be based on the current composition of their gut biome yeah and and if that altered itself and maybe that's having an effect on on the the lectin influence on the permeability of the gut for instance so it becomes this very complicated nuanced experiment of one yes which I have said sort of all along is a it's a long complex quadratic equation and every time you change one variable you have to sort of go down the line and figure out what all the other variables are to get the outcome that you seek so if you decide you want to

00:32:57 > maybe reintroduce some beans into your diet because you're a person who thinks they taste good god bless you amen but if that's the case then then there are ways to go about doing that and maybe eliminating other foods at the same time so you know the full effect of it and and is it a fact is it really a question of lectins or is it sort of a fodmap element of that that's that's causing issues it's it's what you know it's like the more you learn about these things the less you realize that you actually know so I always come back to the primal blueprint as it's a template it's a starting point I want you to try that for 30 days and from there you can make adjustments according to your goals according to your lifestyle your proclivities your desires what you know whatever element of hedonism you want to throw in there but start with the template and then you make it yours but again always comes back to me I just want to give you the information so that when you make a

00:33:59 > choice you go you know what Marc said if I do this this might happen and if I do this that might happen that that's what makes me feel good about people living a conscious life going back 20 years to our sort of Louise Hay consciousness and and awareness and consciousness days cuz they did a bunch of that too now lectins are are they're part of our core biochemistry we'd be dead without lectins in our body right all right all mammals use them about in fact when I was writing the better baby book I went out and I bought a college biochem textbook a little above my reading level for this kind of biochemistry about lectins and like forced myself to go through it and understood at least a third of it because there were some things where I just like there was a lot of biochem that I didn't have where like I could follow and do it but it would just take days and I went through and realized okay there electives are pervasive in our biology they're useful and they can be dangerous depending on what they are because there's thousands of different lectins out there and I I

00:35:01 > worked through to figure out okay what are the benefits we're getting from eating lectins especially the ones that are more aggressive like the nightshades the things that are now what very well talked about and what's impressive to me about the primal blueprint and around sort of the broader paleo is that over the last four years there's been change because so many of these these diet programs even you know Atkins like the basic rules fat is good we forgot what kind of fad we're talking about carbs are bad and chemicals are okay so you have these these poor people I mean I was in that conceding 15 years ago or something I've lost 50 pounds other fifth pounds wouldn't come off let's see I was eating miles of NutraSweet piles of a soul Sylvain potassium I was eating the wrong fats and the wrong ratios and those things all matter so it's cool that that rather than following this very prescriptive or you know eat fewer calories and work out more and you'll lose weight I'd also fundamental prescription for disaster at the end of the day so why now are we seeing that

00:36:06 > the primal blueprint and that paleo in general have been open to changes and becoming more of a movement and less of a you know this is it cut and dry and we're not gonna change like how come we're open now well you know the interesting about March daily Apple my blog is that I've used that very selfishly is my own personal wiki over the past eight years so when I put something out into the universe I make a statement or I make a I take a position I get a lot of feedback and some of that feedback is very valuable to me in rethinking my position maybe or maybe it's solidifying my position so I've had the luxury of having a lot of very smart people in this paleo space come back and say well mark you know you know for instance in the case of lectins again it came out of the blocks thinking lectins are bad of what well you know as you say some amass a dose it's a dose-response kind of situation where with a with a with a bell curve and all of the

00:37:08 > standard probability stats that you'd apply to anything you consume some people can't probably can't have many external lectins at all some people do fine with you know bombarded with all kinds of stuff and you have to figure out where you are in that spectrum with regard to the primal blueprint I just I just want to keep up to date with the latest information so I reserve the right to change my mind I haven't done it I haven't done it that much but you know the lectin issue might be one of those areas I mean I wish that I had come out stronger in the last four or five years in favor of resistant starch because I always felt that resistance starch and feeding the gut biome appropriate we was the way to go and yet I sort of pulled back and said you know it's about healthy it's about meat fish fowl eggs nuts seeds vegetables and a little bit of fruit now we're starting to see that how you the the prebiotic aspect of foods is is a critical component of a diet and

00:38:11 > it's those soluble fibers those starches that make it down through the digestive and feed that 80 trillion little cells in there that are not you I wish I'd taken a stronger position on that I will now because so much research is coming down I said you know what this is I'm gonna I'm gonna change my stance one area that I haven't changed my stance is on my carbohydrate curve I still maintain that for most people the less glucose you burn in a lifetime probably the better off you are so people have given me grief for this you know if you get above 150 grams of carbs a day I say you enter this sort of insidious weight gain zone well whether it's 200 or 225 there's a number at which people don't need that much glucose yeah and and to the extent that they're lucky enough to be able to process it and handle it good for them but it's not necessarily helpful and that's the point I want to make is that you know glucose and I still maintain that we are obligatory fat burning

00:39:13 > beasts our factory setting is at birth is to become good fat burners yeah and we just screw that mechanism up early enough in our lives that for the rest of our lives most of us go down this path of having to have carbohydrate every two and a half hours every day or as well someone's head off so again I'm just getting back to my defense of my original position for instance on the carbohydrate curve so but I I get enough feedback on it that you know I don't lack for for input it helps to have even though there's a selection bias to people who comment on on any blog it helps to have you know a thousand or five thousand or a hundred thousand people saying you know I kind of noticed this when I tried that it's enlightening and the resistance starts thing I'm so glad you brought it up because that was the next thing that I was hoping we could talk about I I'm a fan of Richard Nikolai who's done a lot of this early work and and he's certainly talking about taking math amounts of basically white potato flour unheated raw potato flour and using it like a supplement to change his gut

00:40:15 > biome so when I read about this I said alright I'm gonna try it out on my own in equals one so there's you know two ways to take potato starch you can take it rectally in order to change the gut biome in that part of the guide you can take it orally and it'll go down to that part of the gut if you take it orally the lectins we just talked about which are part of the you know part of the raw potato flour may cause problems I am sensitive to that kind of lectin so I took it orally for a little while and whether you know I got the rashes that come from potatoes so I actually will waiting for my plantain flour to arrive I tried potato starch the other way a few times which isn't that pleasant to be perfectly honest what did I get really bad gas and then I started on the plantain flour and plantain flours like basically green banana flour and after a couple weeks of that I stopped getting the bad gas as much but I started getting hives from it and I'm like alright I think I've had enough of this and the question is with resistant starch what are you feeding like one of

00:41:17 > the primary guys doing this has like bacteria ferment from a glacier growing in his gut and he's like look this comes up like this is kind of scary don't you need to like maybe like take some someone's healthy poop and then take resistant starch and that's the next experiment I'd like to run because maybe that would make less histamine producing bacteria in the gut because you repopulate with something that doesn't but I'm concerned about Lippo polysaccharides which are formed by bacteria in the gut entering the bloodstream and causing brain fog and if you feed them resistant starch they'll still do it you know thoughts on the gut biome versus resistant starch it's it's first of all it's a very interesting area of explanation of exploration there is no explanation and you know I'm talking with Richard about potential book here but um so whether or not whether or not it's it's about just about the resistance star certainly the whole biome thing fascinates me and I think I think the health of the gut biome will be the hot topic in health for the next couple of years I think it's as we as we look more and more into

00:42:19 > but she says 3,000 species of bacteria that camp can reside in the human gut maybe more and you know leech is doing this gut biome project where he's analyzing everybody's poop and figuring out what the what the breakdown is and I don't think we know what these is you know is there an ideal configuration because it differs from from person to person from from community to community based on the types of foods that are available to that community and so it's just uh right now it's a wide-open field of exploration but the fact remains if you D anthropomorphize this whole equation you could arrive at the realization that human beings were evolved to be a life support system for bacterial colonies so it's sort of a matrix you know again I sort of matrix concept that that if you again if you just these these organisms that have been around for you know a billion years or more you know they're

00:43:21 > pretty darn smart and smart being again an anthropomorphic type word but it's interesting to think that more of you is is not you you know inside you they you're 90 trillion cells are not you and they really have a lot to say about what's going on with your digestion with your immune system I mean again 80 percent of the immune system resides in the digestive tract so it's a it's a very important area of exploration it that leads to the next toxin that I wanted to ask you about and it's mold toxins mycotoxins and one of the reasons I'm interested in them is because they stimulate the growth of biofilm in bacteria so when you have even you know parts per billion of certain toxins from molds present or the molds themselves present the bacteria change and we know this is called like penicillin is a small toxin right so but that that changes what the bacteria do so they actually form a mat and the mat has the ability to excrete waste and to take in

00:44:22 > nutrients and if you've ever seen like a kombucha colony which I'm guessing you have it looks like an organ from the human body and you touch it in its leathery and it's actually really creepy like I had also one out that got mold on it a while back and I kind of like do you bury it because it looks like you've got a liver or something growing and that's a complex biofilm but if the same thing is happening in your body and it's modulated by the mycotoxins you take in my my feeling it's probably kind of obvious from the stuff I write I think mycotoxins are especially chronic low-level ones that never go away are affecting our biofilms and our very thinking what's your take on the relative importance of mycotoxins versus other things in our diet again it's one of those areas that I'm a friend of mine Doug Kaufman has kind of gone on record saying you know mycotoxins with the cause of cancer I'm not sure I go that far but he's you know he's sort of one of those cutting-edge guys that leads the way and says you know let's look into this at least and let's let's explore what's going on here and you know stachybotrys is sort of pervasive

00:45:24 > in some homes in in some of the more human parts of the country and people get sick so I think there's a you know there's a lot to investigate that they're about mycotoxins and then the mycotoxins and some of the food supplies corn in particular lends itself to to this mycotoxin thing and i know you know you're you know that the whole the whole coffee issue is a big deal with mycotoxins and coffee you know if once again talking about the the microbiome on the in the body it's not all in the gut we have resident bacteria on our skin that literally when you go to bed at night the reason you don't wake up with three ill inches of filamentous mold growing on your skin is because of that bacteria so to think that that you're going to get into the shower twice a day and scrub your skin and get rid of all of the the oils and support systems and the bacteria there is kind of like it's a ridiculous way of plotting a strategy to get healthy and yet that's kind of what we do all right your random question you don't have to

00:46:26 > answer if you don't want to how often do you shower I get wet every day and I don't use so are you so probably three times a week but my getting wet every day I have a pool in my backyard and in the wintertime it even though I'm in Southern California it'll be anywhere from fifty three to sixty degrees so every day I just I walk into the pool and I just hang out for a couple of minutes it's essentially a cold plunge for me around two o'clock in the afternoon it's become part of my routine when I'm home I love it and that sort of serves as my bath or you know whatever for the day I try to maybe a shampoo again twice a week maybe so I do use soap but I don't use it every day and I certainly don't use it multiple times today okay cool I'm the same way I get wet most days depending on what's going on but I don't use soap on a regular basis because it seems to ruin the composition of my skin and I just don't use shampoo more than like twice a year usually something to do

00:47:28 > with getting my hair cut because I don't need it I don't get dandruff when I'm like that and if I do have a few flakes you can usually say how many carbs came in the last couple days and yeah because they went over that like it's very predictable and controllable right and this drives some people kind of nuts because you know I was brought up if you're not taking a shower every day at least once like you're a dirty person I'm like yeah I guess I'm a dirty person but I'm good with that yeah all right we are getting near the end of the podcast and I'm thinking we have time to talk about intermittent fasting and then to to close down our conversation you up for that absolutely yeah all right intermittent fasting I know you eat in the window I do the same thing tell the people who are listening to this how do you do intermittent fasting what's your take on it well so first of all I do eat in the compress the eating window 1:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. typically and that's my eating strategy that I don't even refer to that is intermittent fasting that's just a that's just a way of eating that I've developed that maximizes my my fat

00:48:31 > burning and allows also for the pulse of whatever HGH or testosterone that I want to generate in a workout so I go into my workouts like I wake up in the morning I'll have a cup of coffee a big cup of coffee I don't do bulletproof and I don't do egg coffee which is why you're primarily coffee right yeah I just have a big cup of coffee I like you know I like that I will then go to work a little bit and around 9:30 I'll go to the gym or I'll go on a hike or I'll go to the beach and do sprints I do it fast it I don't eat after the I don't typically don't eat until about 1 o'clock in the afternoon all intended to maximize muscle mass to get whatever benefits of you know a toffee G that I can develop in that short period of time that would be sort of related to the intermittent fasting thing but all contemplated to make me really good at burning fat because that's kind of my thing I just I obsessed with being a fat-burning beast and that's sort of what I coach and that's sort of the essence of of the primal blueprint

00:49:32 > because when you become good at burning fat your appetite self-regulates and you don't get hungry that much and you're able to intermittent fast and that's a real key skill to develop it when people talk about intermittent fasting in the carbohydrate paradigm they see all sorts of weird things still see benefits from skipping a meal for say 36 hours but they see extra cortisol released they see a decrease in you know in in in mood and a lot of things that have to do with the body not having been adapted to accessing fats and ketones they still show benefits to the to the fast well if you're fat adapted and keep to adapted and you skip a meal or you skip a day of eating you know the body just says hey I know where to get 500 calories right away I'll get it off my ass or whatever my thighs yeah and it doesn't care whether that same saturated fat came from a meal or the body because it's all going to drive an energy system that you have built you've built metabolic machinery to be able to burn

00:50:34 > ketones in the brain for instance so whereas a sugar burner might require 120 grams of glucose a day to fuel the brain and stay active and functioning keto adapted fat adapted person might only need 30 or 40 grams of glucose all of which could come from either gluconeogenesis or from the glycerol molecule stripped off the fatty acid so there's not even a there's not even an issue there but you develop the skill because mitochondrial biogenesis if we want to talk about a hack the greatest thing you can do for your body has increase the number and the efficiency of your mitochondria and you do that by cutting back on sugar you do that by forcing your body to burn it's fast doors when it gets that signal all of those little genetic switches they upregulate they say we need to build more of these power houses we need to build more mitochondria and then the mitochondrial DNA says we need to be more efficient at putting fat through because we as the mitochondria are the stumbling block where the where the where the poor the back-up where all the fat has to has to put through when you get to that point

00:51:35 > and you can access at that you don't need to burn sugar throughout the day you don't need to take in carbohydrates so you can skip these meals now a couple things if you've tried if you're a person who wants to lose weight intermittent fasting for 24 36 hours once a week great thing you know I I highly encourage it it works better for men than women we there's a whole different discussion that we can have about hormonal disruptions and things like that but it's it's again it's a it's a experimental one that that you might want to want to try but the other reason for intermittent fasting is this wonderful analogy I use where you have a cell and the cell says well let's see there's lots of glucose around so let's divide cuz our job is to pass the genetic material forward into the future so if there's lots of food and lots of glucose and lots of other nutrients we can divide become two cells this will be great everybody will have fun we'll get this whole life process over sooner so the next or organism can be created now conversely think about a cell that doesn't have now you've been fasting for

00:52:36 > 36 hours the cell goes jeez what do I do there's no food around the last thing I want to do is divide so I'm going to I think I'll I'll eat some of the damaged proteins and some of the damaged fats that are inside me I think I'll clean house a little bit I think I'll remodel I'll fix up some of the DNA so there's a real longevity anti-aging component to intermittent fasting that that is I think really beneficial it's worth doing for for people I think there's no reason not to I am in full support of those ideas and you mentioned a couple things about hormones there your your over 60 HCG testosterone bioidentical testosterone human growth hormone are you going to do them I'm already on testosterone I've about that before because my numbers show that it's beneficial for me but what's your take right right maybe there's a point at which I think hdh I think I'm not a big fan of HGH

00:53:38 > that conceptually I think it's like a master hormone that can there's just not enough knowing about it right now you dangerous could be dangerous you know I'm open I mean HCG doesn't doesn't appeal to me my wife does HRT she's 58 she looks great she started in menopause and so she's been doing it for five or six years so for women I think hormone replacement is probably something worth experimenting if you've if you are exhibiting symptoms that you don't like for men again if you test low I'm not opposed to it I just you have to be very careful with this stuff because there's I think the jury's still out on a lot of this well you can get that's atrophy of your genitals or actually just your balls but yes still yes testicular atrophy is not fun right but I suppose that there are other ways to get it that involve not eating enough butter and animals so it can happen either way yeah all right open these big balls I say but I mean you know some

00:54:40 > kind of it was at ACDC right as long as everything else is stacked nice level up that matters there yeah yeah now there's a question that everyone who's been on a bulletproof podcast has answered except that one time when I forgot to ask and that is given everything you've learned mark which is a fascinating amount of things not just from MDA though but your whole life Louise hey included top three most important recommendations you have for people who want to perform better want to kick more ass what are they top top would be get appropriate amounts of sleep I think people are shocked when I when I when I say that because they think always got to be have to do with a diet but find the number one thing that I think people suffer from now is a is a sleep disorder that they brought on themselves so I would say really make sure you orchestrate your sleep schedule and and close attention to that number to cut

00:55:42 > out sugar sugar is where however you can do it whether or not you give up grains cut out the sugar make sure that you are not drinking your calories in the form of soda the desserts have to cut way back and look for added sugar and the labels but if you can get rid of the sugar and then presumably if you can get rid of the the the stuff that turns the sugar the the processed grains and so on you'll be way ahead of everybody else around you who's trying to lose weight trying to find more energy trying to reduce inflammation and probably number three is find ways to move throughout the day not necessarily in terms of exercise because it's not about counting calories it's just about the movement through space I mean I'm talking you I'm at my stand-up desk during this you know during this interview I'll find ways to move throughout the day I'll go for a you know a hike in the middle of the day I'm always looking for ways to move and I think and my hip flexors have thanked me for that by the way since I've been doing a stand-up desk and at my office all of my

00:56:44 > employees have a treadmill under their desk so I didn't force it upon him they actually asked for it and so my employees can put six eight ten miles a day in walking 1.7 miles an hour you know working on the keyboard answering the phones and stuff like that so I find ways to move that is that's so cool in case you heard that noise that was actually my stand-up desk it's moving up and down right now I have an electric one I've been standing for our whole podcast too but I I found walking to be a little distracting so I every hour I'll step on my whole body vibration plate for five minutes and just do 30 times a second bouncing assuming that that doesn't have proprioception that it's probably similar to walking when do you have the I use a one that I manufacture it's called the bulletproof vibe it's Oh fifteen hundred dollar vertical up-and-down only thirty Hertz only but it's like small it doesn't have handles or anything which is why I like it because it just fits wherever so it's a it's an interesting idea it sounds like you've tried do you have one a whole body vibration no I don't I mean a

00:57:45 > pineapple company pineapple but they they the designers of that were friends of mine and when it first came out about 10 years ago I star using it and it's kind of fun to do push-ups on or whose squads on yeah and I'm not opposed to the science I think I think the science is there for it but at some point you know I'm gonna be gadget it out here if I keep going I think it's already happened to me but it's so fun so yeah mark tell people like they don't already know given how popular you are but tell people your URL your latest book where they can learn about the other books that you're publishing with other health innovators just basically give us your coordinates marks daily apple.com is the site it's I encourage people to sign up for the newsletter goes out every week also primal blueprint comm is where we sell our books and our events and supplements and everything else that helps take advantage of all the technology and all the education that we've amassed mark thanks again for coming on it's been an honour to chat with you I'm a fan of your work and I appreciate all the

energy you put into what you do appreciate Dave thanks for having me I go toxins in the plant world is there ever yeah they're absolutely everywhere you can try to mitigate them if it's best as possible the first thing is to try to identify them and identify the ones that can really do damage see the head of foam that is formed on it this is similar to what you get with a latte they're actually little bubbles still coming to the surface just like a freshly steamed latte