Tony Stubblebine: Productivity, Habits & Lift iPhone App

Video | Dave Asprey

00:00:00 > Tony Stubblebine co-founded lift on the idea that positive reinforcement and community support are things that help people actually achieve their goals before we found a lift he was the CEO of crowd vine event social networks which builds social software to help people connect and meet kind of interested in having him on the podcast today because well when you look at what happens with social networks and you look at what happens with positive reinforcement and just building a community you can actually cause change in human beings much more efficiently and I'm kind of just impressed and interested in what happens when you take those ideas and you put them into a company so I invited Tony to be on to the show I'm Tony welcome well yeah hey thanks for having me good idea haha I think this will be fun actually I saw you on stage you know maybe I'd like the quantified self

00:01:01 > conference last year that sound right yeah I was a quantified self talking about sex I think that's right it stood out and um and beak yeah that's probably a really good punter could have made there but yeah I didn't get a chance to meet so I I'm happy that we finally got a chance to connect yeah I'll be swinging by your office's one of these days when I'm back down in the bay area but I'm taking this one from my biohacking Ground Zero facility here Brad alright alright so what's lift tell me about it yeah I mean just like you said in the bio we got really interested in what does it take for people to be superhuman and any research you do like basically anyone that you've ever heard of that you think of as a genius it turns out they had incredible support along the way that you never hear about and that that is the secret to their genius like what why was Mozart a music

00:02:02 > prodigy because his dad was a freakin a music teacher right like those things help right why is Tiger Woods so great at golf like why was he a prodigy his dad is one of the greatest coaches of child golfers probably the world has ever seen right and so you know we just looked into this I mean initially just for ourselves like hey you know what what system could we put in place that would make us better and just even in my own experiments I think the thing that got me on to lift is I built a little motivational tool for myself that quantifiably doubled my productivity in a day and I thought oh that's good I mean some people take drugs for this all I had to do is write a little bit of software so but what if you wrote software and took drugs when you've written the software in half the time yeah I know it's 4x I think mayans when they when they hear this podcast they're gonna be pissed that I'm not also doing drugs on their behalf the so

00:03:07 > anyways a lift for now in its current arkin incarnation is an app you can use it on the web you can use it on the iphone and it provides a couple of basic pieces of support that should work for whatever your goal is is a productivity is it's a better relationship is that control of your own you know kind of troubles is it health fitness all of those things work inside of lift and the the fundamentals of support are you can't you can't change what you don't measure and a lot of times what you really want as you get going as some sort of information sharing from people that are doing it with you so everything in lift is backed by a community of people doing the accept the exact same thing as you well let's talk for a minute about what you you do yourself for productivity you're kind of a programming badass you're an author of regular expression pocket reference by o'reilly so like if you're listening to this in your software developer you're probably like on your knees doing you

00:04:09 > know proper levels of worship for a coding god is that kind of right what well I you know it's funny right it's like there was a period where that's all I aspired to be and now I almost always right the first version of the software in a company that I found and then real coding come in and take over um yeah I'm curious what are you what your productivity tips are and like I'm happy to share mines like everyone has a system that's a little bit customized to them there's usually some like some overlap would look like what what's your focus when you're thinking about your own productivity right now energy management is his front end foremost i also am kind of obsessed with decision-making fatigue because as a CEO and just it i have this incredible pressure from people that I genuinely want to help like like if someone sends me an email I don't know at two in the morning I honestly want to help them

00:05:10 > because I'm like if I spend five minutes I can save this guy like $20,000 in lab tests and like five years of suffering and it's a really good investment of five minutes of my time which means I have to find five minutes of time if I want to do that so how do I make decision making move out of my head how do i empower others yeah but not lose control and you know turn into the next Monsanto where you know like the company does all sorts of bad stuff and I sit at the top either blissfully unaware and evil since I'm not evil i would be just blissfully unaware so i don't want that to happen either so where does all that go you see you like what do you do yeah I'm super focused on my morning right now like so I took that like same research on decision fatigue and the way I internalized it is like I have a decision budget every day there's only a certain amount of decisions yep and the thing about that decision fatigue is it doesn't actually differentiate between big decisions and small decisions it's just there's a certain number that you're basically able to you know get

00:06:11 > through in the day and you can Duke it a little bit with a little like when and how you eat but basically you're spending it down throughout the whole day and the morning is where you set yourself up for whether or not you're efficiently spending your budget or inefficiently like you know kind of my standard default if I was not on top of myself would be that I would wake up based on an alarm on my phone I would immediately check my email my Twitter my facebook and then every other social site that i might have recently gotten likes on and and then my head would be filled with about fifty thousand different things to do and then every following step would be a negotiation with myself between which of those 50,000 things should i do and those are all decisions and they wear down your your decision budget so my whole thing is get to a clear head as soon as possible meditation is a big part of that but the other one is a is to get um

00:07:15 > get my to-do list out of my head and on paper as soon as possible and the top thing that I learned recently which I actually learned it from one of our investors Evan Williams he M he blocks out his whole calendar which like that's a good idea and for a long time I did and do that but you know if I have a to do list of 10 items and then I you know I block out my day I see well maybe I'm gonna go get two three or four of these because I have a bunch of meetings um and that that's basically what keeps me from from just wearing myself out with a bunch of you know useless decisions it's kind of funny it's deciding which of the 10 things to do can itself be a burden and I come across that a lot just in my own thing because I have I practice getting things done for a long time for instance and I found out no matter what I do I can file and categorize every

00:08:18 > single thing that comes into my inbox and it still comes in the work so as to get done and after three years of pretty dedicated practice I stopped doing it because I realized that the decision of where to file something was costing me more than the potential fear of not having something done right yeah i'm looking for a better framework for how to do the prioritization right now i just i ask myself this question which of these things will actually change the outcome of the company like that's the thing i'm constantly on the lookout for is what could i do here that today would change like really significantly change the company and it turns out if you look if you're really critical of most of the things on your to-do list almost nothing like I have to get back to our accountants to make sure our taxes get filed okay I mean that'll happen but it's not going to change whether or not we're successful company um I'm recruiting today that absolutely

00:09:22 > is in the category if it would change if we find the right person and so once i'm clear on that then a lot of the other stuff goes away and so it's actually pretty easy since recruiting is so important for me it was actually pretty easy for me at least today to let almost everything else drop drop away yeah getting the right team put together is is so critically important now now what do you do though I didn't think we'd actually go here on this but alright so let's say getting your personal taxes filed not strategic but it's kind of important because it's annoying when you get phone calls from the I arrest asking you for money that you wouldn't have to give them otherwise Yeah right okay so if that's the situation how do you make sure that gets done I mean you have a system for that um yeah well it gets done so I thought that the system is you know those things I think wait and tend to wait um I think there's a little bit about those things though the

00:10:23 > characteristic of them is that the quality of how you do them doesn't matter like if lift where it was a bigger company um it would really matter right but if I were to do my taxes today I would have all of this extra time to look into all these edge case tax credits that really aren't actually for us but because I have all the extra time and I gave myself all this time then I would just take longer than it would need to I think there's actually some value to procrastinating on less important things because you work more efficiently when you have actual urgency around them and it helps time box it so that you know the scope of work isn't as big speaking of boxes you're working in a building is there a window you can close because I'm hearing all kinds of like jackhammers construction you definitely start up that that is too bad nothing I can do that's cool I mean I just know when people are in cars and

00:11:24 > they're listening they're always twittering me saying do if your audio quality is no good so I have this like Death Star microphone if you're watching this on youtube you can see I literally have mic the microphone to end all microphones you know it's funny we in my first startup actually worked for podcasting startup called oh do and it's famous because it's what Twitter is spun out of and it was right at the beginning of podcasting so there is always this big debate about audio quality and definitely a lot of audio files gravitated to podcasting and they hear every one of these audio imperfections yeah my windows are closed and but we were ad in downtown San Francisco and apparently there at least you're hearing jackhammers and not this guy that's yelling on the street I just a screamer down downstairs that um he's louder than the jackhammers I was at 16th and mission for a while few years back when I was CTO at basis the wristband kind of company here but today but yeah it was

00:12:26 > it was crazy stuff you just unbelievable so yeah in cities sorry everyone listening you're going to hear that sort of thing but I'll it let's get back to the value of procrastination you were just talking about this is kind of cool because most people never get here a couple CEOs and like successful serial entrepreneurs talk about this kind of thing and it's kind of personally like well you know my weak CEO because like I didn't pay attention to something right um yeah I'm really I feel like I'm really lucky to have worked with different types of people who were successful so kind of your standard stereotypical CEO is amazingly intense and look I mean they're just going to like their somehow it seems like they're going to get everything done because they can't help themselves they're so intense and I'm actually I'm lucky at oh do I worked with evan williams is now one of our investors and basically co-design lift us and he founded blogger he founded Twitter he founded now medium is his

00:13:27 > current project and just a really really thoughtful guy in the best buy oh I ever read about him one of the phrases was you can hear him thinking and I just thought well that's exactly right he never yells at you but you can hear him at his desk quietly typing up some some like well-reasoned mission statement that you know explains the whole future of the company and once you read that you'll be able to get your work done without him ever having to yell at you nice time and you know a lot of a lot of my um I mean I just I relate more to him I think when you're taking advice you have to take advice from someone who's actually like you and so you know I see the way he runs it he really tries to keep focused on the things that matter and and he's really good at it and really successful so you try to emulate the people around you who have been

00:14:28 > really successful at that well you've also done a ton of research and there's one of the reasons that I'm really interested in this because you looked at at habit research specifically and I mean what did you learn from the habit research that's different than what you learned from being a CEO of from evan williams and people like that were there obvious holes or were there obvious commonalities like what came out of it all yeah did you know it it's so funny to talk about habits in terms of CEOs or you know managers at all right because the you know when someone is doing habit design with you i like i did i did a lot of my a lot of my education came from a Stanford professor BJ Fogg oh yes you know super well respected in the space of like one of the first names you're going to hear and his default example when he's going to teach you about habit design he starts talking about flossing and he says you know like start with

00:15:30 > something small and let it grow and hit a lot of his concepts around time you have it um but when you're in when you're a CEO a lot of your habits or decision-making habits when someone asks you for something what do you do when when you feel like when you have an uncomfortable feeling in your gut how do you react to that and those are basically habitual and the more that you can be clear with yourself the ease it just the easier it is and so a lot of my life as a CEO is trying to figure out the things that I just hundred percent believe kind of what are my philosophies and then recognizing if something comes up that fits one of those philosophies and then I don't have to negotiate an answer right like I guess when we talk about decision fatigue or your decision making budget the if those get warden down every time you have to negotiate and if

00:16:33 > you just already know well this is this is my belief system then you have almost a canned response for a lot of these things so when I look at F I think you know one of the things he has is P and responses for saying no this is a guy people ask him for money they asked him for time they asked him to speak they asked him for jobs and he just he's really good at saying no to all of the things that he would never do right or that are kind of borderline and and somehow he's put that infrastructure in place where he's able to say yes to you know a handful of things every you know every year that actually matter yeah so saying no is a habit is something you don't hear I guess we have to have the no habit is the title of book so i'm gonna get that domain real quick hashtag coming right I don't do you find like late um sort of emotional control is kind of one of the challenges of being a CEO do that control my own emotions yeah

00:17:36 > until I did 40 years of Zen and heart rate variability training it was an issue but as it is when there's emotion it's usually something that I intentionally bring in to help underline something but not actually hey if your work for me don't listen to this and I'm actually not that mad because like I don't I don't allow my nervous system to do that to me because it cost me a lot if I'm sitting there fuming and I'm angry at my people it's far more powerful if you're level headed you say look this situation really disappointed me I'm unhappy with the results I don't like where we're going right it's nothing to say you son of a bitch I can't believe you did that like one of those is an emotional response the other one is expressing justified disappointment but still supportive of the team and I find one motivates people to do better not like themselves but into to bring their values out all the way you know to it to be inspirational I hope versus the other which isn't sometimes the motion is just part of communication yeah if they're expecting you to be emotional and you're

00:18:38 > not is this ends up being confusing but I really remember when i first started when i first started my first company what you said about kind of sitting there fuming and you know I kind of made this mistake of using my actual cell number like all over the site so we would get there's a constant stream of phone calls from people who just basically wanted to waste my time and yeah I think probably all of your listeners have gotten at least you know several dozen calls from a telemarketer and you know add it in opportune time and the telemarketer is pretty rude and they've maybe tried to argue with the telemarketer right and um yeah I would get so many variations of this that you know like sometimes as a telemarketer is like trying to sell me aluminum siding but recruiters associates of VC firms people that want should be you know associates of VC firms are basically telemarketers have you ever gotten a call from one of them I've been an untrue and residence at a venture capital firm which is not an associate

00:19:40 > yeah it's a it's a rough gig I mean it's actually it's so ridiculous because what they tell you is um you know I'd like to talk to you to see about starting a relationship and you know with the idea that we might fund you in the future but anyone that knows anything about venture capital knows that you'll never get funded by venture list unless someone that they know outside of the firm makes that introduction on your behalf if you're not going to just have a sweet talk so I'm associate into getting investment so it's a complete waste of time they're lying to your face because what are they really doing just market research quite often is market research I mean I I think as a CEO the best thing you do when an associate calls is you just send them all of your spreadsheets you know of course they're not actually like the right spreadsheets I'm just going don't be mean to VCS you never know in that associate will be a partner later and also they're all people and the associate I know are working their asses off for not that good of pay and like

00:20:41 > there you have to be a hardcore to make associate at a good VC so like you know it it's a thankless job and it sure as hell better than selling aluminum siding but I to your point yeah if it's a cold call from associate you know not a partner or an introduction from someone who's worked with them before and maybe you know been a success for that VC your odds go down so dramatically yeah well it's it's worth the worst for me is always the recruiter because they really don't they're just going to try and find some way to you know get a conversation going with you and they're pretty rude about it and so I you know I used to kind of hang up in a huff and then I would like we would have we done talking but I'd be sitting there a little bit annoyed with them for like so the call might last 30 seconds but might take me out of my zone for half an hour just the other costly and so the thing that I did was and I wrote a blog post about this and still one of my favorite posts is I just wrote down a script for every single type of person that called me and

00:21:42 > that involved me being polite but hanging up in the script would be oh thank you so much for calling but we're not interested right now goodbye pause have a nice day click and so in a I would just if they said goodbye as well during the pause great if they didn't at least the last thing I would hear is myself being polite to them and I've been home yeah and but just by having a script I like I was then able to remove this kind of this emotional part of my and I mean that's the that's I guess when you when you hear kind of super hero worship around entrepreneurs I don't think you get how they're not a mean everyone is like tripped up by something and it's always distracting and you have to have your little strategies for getting around it it's interesting I used to spend an inordinate amount of time with like how did you get my number like who are you where do you live and in fact when I was

00:22:45 > about 26 or 27 and much angrier someone called me like that and I got their number so I could call them back and I called him back every day and I pitched him like on Amway and on herbal tea and I just would not let got off their I must to spend an hour doing this right and and it was it was actually mean and like I'm sure at the other end they're like oh my god I can't get this guy off the phone like what's going on this is so annoying and he calls back any pitches the same thing again and it partners like I got my revenge but knowing what I know now about like my inner wiring like I don't think what was that Indian prob you know feed the wolf that you want to win like I don't know that I made the world a better place I don't know that I made myself a better person by doing that so what I do now with stuff like that if they get through and I have systems in place where it basically if the call isn't scheduled with me ahead of time and you're not on my very short list of like close friends and family kind of thing I'm probably not going to answer the phone and even if you're on my list the odds of my time being scheduled then so I'm not answering are almost a hundred percent so it's like you'll learn to call my

00:23:46 > assistant or to email her and say when could I possibly talk to Dave I know it might be 8 17 p.m. tonight because that's his first available and then that is what it is right um I was hanging out at some kind of founder gathering and the CEO I was talking to got a call and he um when he looked at who was calling he turned the phone around and showed it to me with this big smile on his face and the contact said do not answer and what he'd been doing for years is any time he got a call from someone who didn't like he just added it to this one contact do not answer so I've been doing that too and i like that i got a big kick out of it when i get i do not answer call that is so brilliant and this is an example of why when you call someone if you're listening to this you should have a reason for calling you have an agenda not waste their time not waste your time one of the things that just drives me nuts is every now and then someone will get through and like oh I just wanted to be our initial call like to just kind of

00:24:48 > set up a relationship and I'm like maybe you have a different amount of time pressure than I do but I set aside a half hour to talk to you because you got past my my BS detectors but if there was no reason for us to talk and you don't know why you're calling me other than like you thought I was cool like I respect that I'm grateful you think I'm cool and all but like seriously like like get a plan and I'm probably not going to talk to you again and that's right it's something to be aware of that honestly I find especially younger people when they first enter the workforce no one's taught you this in school and right you're not going to know it but don't burn bridges by calling people without an agenda but you know on the flip side if you have younger aati audience members like shit you're allowed to make so many mistakes at that age it's unbelievable and that's the thing I learned in starting my first companies like I didn't know how to do anything and in fact I did everything wrong and it was really slow about figuring out how to do it right and you know it really just didn't matter like there's so much opportunity in the world

00:25:49 > and you know if you're driven if you like what you do you'll eventually figure it out so I like I don't like to think too hard about what I was like in that first year the ridiculous situations I was creating I'm just because of my own ignorance but there's a there's a group 20 under 20 and peter thiel funds which is a group of young entrepreneurs who are under 20 years old who have been paid not to go to school to instead start companies and I'm a mentor to the program and so I get to go to the phone with these guys on occasion and like kind of know the organization structure and it's kind of funny because honestly if you're 18 and you're going to go to Sand Hill Road like you're going to get run over by a 750il it's it's like it's going to happen but the VCS are all there too and so you do get an amazing number of passes but like someone needs to tell to tell you when you're 18 don't chew gum in a meeting and yes we know Zuckerberg were you know

00:26:50 > d does flip-flops and a hoodie but maybe you can do a little better than that like at least make sure it's a nice hoodie or that doesn't have like naked pictures on it or something like like there's just a certain level and as you get older and more experienced you get that but it's kind of funny because we all start out with kind of a blank slate unless you know your dad is John Doerr or something and you know and you you have you know that the VC in the blood but not all of us have that right all right so you've learned something about the habit of saying know which is which is itself a kind of amazing and something that most people could work on more and there's a whole set of psychological stuff that happens often times before you even have a chance to think about whether you want to say no or not like in fact we've seen some research using very detailed physiological monitoring that says you can basically predict whether the person is going to say yes or no before they think of the answer consciously really like your body knows a yes or no before you do that's interesting it's kind of

00:27:51 > scary to the degree that like is that something that you can spot is that a tell there are tells you can spot but I don't believe those are ones you could spot without a whole lot of physiological monitoring unless you're one of those quote intuitive people because one of the fields that we put out that we're just learning more about is there's a doughnut-shaped electromagnetic field that sits it's tilted I think eight degrees to the left or 18 degrees I forget so it kind of sits here and we can detect it about this far out from the body and the scary thing is we know if you walk into a stall with a horse your heart rate variability and the horses heart rate variability will synchronize basically yours won't change what the horses will change if it's a trained horse right and this is why scared people make crappy riders because the horse can tell you're scared but we don't know what the mechanism is and there's people say maybe it's electromagnetic but it's not touch based so you walk in the horse changes to match you like it's spooky what's up with that but maybe that is a towel and maybe we're wired to sense that but if we are you probably don't know your wires a sense that but maybe

00:28:53 > we could train you to be and that's you that's amazing stuff but it's pretty far out there I think um I think one of the most effective hobbies that I ever picked up that end up mattering for business was poker and I'm positive like if I think someone's lying to me I'm positive that I know um just based on like having played a lot of poker with people you kind of pick up like yeah there's a bluff going on here and so every now and then I'll just be out in the world and someone will like I will lie to me and I'll be like and sometimes it won't even matter but I'll just be positive like hey what wait what why are you bothering to lie to me right here um but it is there is this kind of intuitive sense and like you kind of need enough repetition with it to to be able to trust your own you're your own instinct on it well now you're talking about repetition of intuition it is there an intuition habit that you recommend that's a good one I'm given a

00:30:01 > long pauses because I haven't ever thought of it that way um we know the number one that is lucky people right lucky people are just people that are open to the world right like there's a lot of people that that believe that some of them explain it in a very spiritual way like certainly the book the secret is along that way right like I would have a hard time taking that book seriously as a reader but on the other hand I'm almost positive the advice actually pans out because the like just training yourself to be open however they convince you to go about that means that you're going to notice more opportunity and so there's a bunch of habits in lift that are about gratitude and I think are effectively about making you lucky so there's a really popular right three good things about your day have it inside of lift there's some standard ones just be

00:31:03 > grateful even I think you know give someone a compliment look anything that that has you looking for good in the world I think has the side effect of making you luckier and I kind of think that you know that's not a rational part of your life you're not like rationally well this week I'm going to be lucky and next week I'm not they care as much about being lucky it is like those those things come about unconsciously but I think there's habits that that that train them it's true that a large percentage of what happens in your body is irrational because it's not conscious and it can only be rational when it's conscious so your heart beats but it's not rational that your heart beats it just does and someone jumps out and says boo and you get startled it's not rational that you got startled you just did and all of those things like you're attracted to women that look like a certain thing okay that none of that's rational but like we know that it's there I spent a large part of my life as

00:32:06 > an executive like trying to only be rational and it it actually doesn't work so I've trained my intuition with a lot of different techniques and and if you want to get to the root of the secret read like Louise Hay which is like the most hippie crazy stuff out there you know 15 minute miracle stuff like you have to like open your mind so far your brain falls out to read it and then put your brain back in when you're done because it really sounds like total hippie BS but when you practice the steps without judging them as rational or irrational accepting that ninety percent of what your body does is irrational anyway I think it manufactures luck like what can you say like it seems too great you know you can almost do like the second degree analysis which is rationally if we're we can most people will admit that if they're motivated they'll do better so by that if you just take that as a law anything that motivates the person is rationally good no matter how metaphysical it is right and you know this is I think a trend that's going on

00:33:08 > in Silicon Valley is that you have a bunch of really you know overly rational people rediscovering the 60s for the purposes of performance right like your meditation i think is our fifth most popular habit inside of lift I was wondering about that I mean like really you know so I told my parents about this I was like you know hey hey mom I'm getting really into meditation and she's like oh yeah I did that right like look what way back when but she's totally passed it right and I was like no no I think this is gonna make me more productive at work and she's like what like the don't that's not what we were meditating for we were meditating to bring about world peace and I was like no no I think I'll be more present I'll be able to close bigger deals i'll be you know more insightful in my meetings if I meditate right and then now that we've gotten a chance to meet a lot of

00:34:09 > people of those sort of meditators in the startup space there's this weird thing that goes on which is on the one hand it is great for performance yeah like it clears your mind it gives you this training on how to be present in the moment just super hard with all the distractions we have but it also brings about these kind of spiritual moments where I and it was hard to I don't even think we're really prepared to talk about that you know I came back from a from a retreat at Esalen which is like the original human potential space like for 50 years they've been on the cutting edge of the human potential movement I mean they basically invented this every big name in psychology as lately the buildings are named after maslow and um and it is it's a little crunchy there you were you tie ties huh yeah and you know you swim you know you bathe naked in the hot tubs the night right like all

00:35:11 > this stuff is going on but I was there with other tech entrepreneurs and you know we were naked in the hot tubs yelling about venture capitalist so we didn't like completely change our spots but when I came back you know how to explain where I was the team in it I was like okay let me just preface everything which is I'm still the same person I love sports love rap music I like I really want this company to succeed anyway you know by any means necessary but also I may be using words like transformational in the future and and we're just going to have to deal with let that dichotomy is too I'm having to kind of separate things and somehow in my mind they merge um and you know I think there's a lot of that going on right now I bring some of my bulletproof coaching clients through the 40 years of Zen style program where literally spend seven days not just

00:36:14 > meditating like you would in VIP pass on or something but you're actually reminded 50 times a second at many different points on your head whether you're doing it right or not so it's literally like meditation with rubber bumpers and alarms if you try and do it wrong so it's very fast and it's not just transformational but its tumultuous like it is hard work to do 40 years of mental focus in a short period of time and you know people throw up people cry like it is as you know gut-wrenching as anything I've ever done more than like being pursued by bounty hunters across LA or something when I've done that too right awesome so you're like ah but when you do it and people come back from it yeah it takes a little while to get sort of you know back back all the way to where you want to be but you find that when you do that your ability to focus and like the voices in your head are changed and all the sudden yeah you do talk about transformation and maybe you temporarily got a bit of a hippie vibe but it doesn't matter because even with

00:37:15 > that you're so much more productive and you're just you're focuses is unbelievable yeah I love having access to that focus yeah yeah because you know your day is crazy is like you have so many things going on you're switching back and forth and then just randomly you could have some high-pressure moment you know one of your employees is going to come and say hey you know Dave we gotta talk like you know you gotta be there in that moment you gotta summon it and in that moment and like meditation is you know these things are basically practice for that for that skill yeah and it gets worse too if it's your board members you know they're they're certain they're there yeah they're well I did the world's this guy's following world's coming to an end did you know you didn't hit your number or you're never over five percent you were sandbagging and like but whatever it is they're they're going to hit you with you can react emotionally you can you just shut up and look angry or you can you could like you

00:38:18 > said you bring it you turn it on like all right and the ability to bring it is a habit that you can form and it's a habit that you can train and when you train that to be able to bring it endlessly as long as you want you to bring it more than anyone else at the table and just still be bringing it when they're done right it's going to reflect in the relationships you have with people and it's going to reflect in your success it just is I mean that's what's so great about the current research in the behavior design right now is this is a lot of people helping to uncover that everything that you want to achieve is trainable so look that news is both good and bad right the good news is hey you can get there the bad news is hey you have to put in some work and not only that you've you're either wild or you've already been trained in a way that you didn't consent to right that's called growing up Yeah right like I'm trained the whole first especially seven years of life is a set of trainings most of

00:39:20 > which happened below the conscious level so the voice in your head now is the voice in the head you heard when you were two and you were trained that way and if you don't like that training or you're not even aware of it part of changing your habits is changing the training that underlies the habits and I found that using biohacking technologies is the fastest way to do it because the feedback loop from the consciousness to the unconscious parts of the body it's too long the conscious parts are slow the unconscious parts are so fast that it you know you can do the same thing over and over and over to eventually get through but if you can find a way to rewrite those rules to sort of hack your way in then suddenly have a change becomes much easier and that's been a major focus of what I've done to myself when I do I work with with people i love that right so the competition I mean let's just assume everyone is going to put work in but the competition is how how can you find the most effective practice and that I mean that's a lot of insider knowledge like so I love that what is

00:40:21 > this thing that you were putting on people's heads what's a cult I have a whole bunch of different things but there's the upgraded focus brain trainer in five minutes of training on this thing teaches you actually I won't even say you it teaches your brain to put more blood in the front of itself when you want to pay attention and your score on the tova skip test which is a quantitative test of your ability to pay attention it goes up and your score will be higher later like it's stable it gives you new skills to focus so perfectly healthy high performance people in five minutes of training a day for a month or two are like oh my god I can look at four screens and my focus is just there so somehow you can magically learn to bring it or you can look at the score on the screen see it change in real time and the trick is your nervous system understands real time but your conscious brain is always a third of a second lagging behind because you're so slow when you're being rational so training the part of you that brings it my mind is blown by this like this seems like most important thing like it's like one of ten biohacking technologies yeah

00:41:23 > like will hook you up next time I'm in San Francisco like lit hand made for people there's about 200 of these in existence and what would what does one cost if you want to buy one a thousand bucks and you can share with as many people as you want yeah it's kind of a deal right great no you know I think one thing you start to learn as a CEO or maybe just as you get older is kind of the value of money right and so when you're young I mean shit you can't afford anything so it's got to be cheap no matter what but then you start kind of really thinking about the trade Austin like but I put a thousand dollars and do like shit I mean I put almost a hundred thousand dollars undergraduate in college right so absolutely i put a hundred thousand dollars and there are a thousand dollars and a something that helps me focus well the this 40 years n stuff a side effect that's been shown in a study is 12 IQ points that are stable year later so the first time I did it literally I had two weeks off between jobs and I'm like I'd never have time for this kind of stuff I said well I've been going

00:42:24 > without normal pay for quite a while now like almost two years you know entrence and startup CEO or not Co startup whatever but very low pay living in you know Silicon Valley in areas and I'm like okay I put it all my discover card I like screw this noise it's only 1200 hours in IQ point that's the best deal ever and if I had to meditate for an hour a day for 40 years like fifteen thousand dollars / that and like the hourly rates fifty cents or something ridiculous so I just literally was like I'll pay it off over the next year and I did and it was a completely awesome thing and it did more than I expected and it was one of the many biohacking technologies that that really was worth the three hundred thousand dollars i ended up investing all these different things so like when it comes down to it though you you hit it on the head there's a whole reason we started talking about this stuff it's like what are the things you can do they give you the most bang for the buck and if the bang is like nuclear level ginormous then okay you know find a way and do it and one of the most inspiring stories about that specific kind of training is

00:43:26 > a waitress who saved up tips for three years did it and like I'm pretty sure she's not a waitress anymore right like like it can't you can make it happen if you need to not honestly some of these things are dirt cheap and one of my missions with the bull proved executive is to raise awareness of the technologies to stimulate demand which will increase supply and drop the cost because I want kids in high school every single one of them to go through this oh you want to learn how to pay attention instead of giving you detention when you don't pay attention do you know how much time I spend in detention despite the fact that I was number two it my GPA was number two in the whole school right I was in detention all the time because i was sleeping all the time because it was boring right it wasn't a lack of ability to pay attention my brain was not trained to no one taught me how to pay attention so what if we just had a little computer teach kids to pay attention and then we schooled them and that's why I bio hack my kids my three-year-old does breathing exercises hooked up to an iphone measuring his heart rate variability and he can bring it and he's three ya know like half of school should be soft skills yeah you know and I mean even the phrase is wrong

00:44:28 > like these are the most important things and you get so much out of I don't even know I mean I look back at school all the time and I don't understand what I was doing in middle school like why why did school exists because I didn't don't remember learning anything I played basketball at recess but other than that nothing and I think you know if if we had just worked on how to focus and man that's like that would have paid off so much better yeah I I wish that they had taught me something like that I learned a lot about how to like you know throw a good punch stuff like that that depends on how rough your school was but honestly the stuff that I see now and some of the the change in the education system that are happening are not positive but then you see these like community movements one of my friends in Silicon Valley is running a group where they hire a superbly talented teacher for like 50 bucks an hour or something and they have five families in each throws in ten bucks an hour cheaper than a nanny and all the sudden now you have this a five person

00:45:29 > class which is every teacher's dream and a teacher is making twice what the public schools pay like that sort of thing has to happen more and honestly those are the ones who are going to be at the forefront of biohacking their kids because they'll realize well if I train the kids to pay attention they'll be happier and that's really what it comes down to you want happy kids you can play and pay attention and be focused and those grow up into the most successful amazing entrepreneurs yeah exactly like you if you could do that you basically remove half of the angst or growing up yeah you have to that there's one half of angst about for me girls absolutely I think you might not be alone there yeah man anyone girls it's boys right um all right for girls is boys and also other girls fair back right but but the other was unlazy everyone's telling me I'm lazy I need to work harder at school and it's like ah but I don't want to work hard at school of socks is boring right to virtue listen who's not lazy will meditate the same way for 50 years a lazy personal sake hurry meditate faster that's me hands up for sure she thought of that

00:46:31 > wait when I was first a programmer as a pearl programmer and that's actually one of like they start out when they teach you pearl they say number one virtue of pearl laziness like we try if you're lazy they're like this language and I mean the right productive people are have laziness as a virtue the whole notion of cloud computing getting off track a little bit is it so I'm originally an IT guy systems administrator helped to create some of the modern automation stuff around cloud that became modern cloud and the reason I did it I was really lazy and I wanted to automate my job away then I just wanted to like read cool you know usenet posts or something well my job was happening by itself that is what became cloud computing it wasn't you know it was tens of thousands of IT guys but all of us like could we get rid of the boring and that's lazy it's as a virtue it's lazy I mean having watched Simmons through the ages i gotta say what looks like the shittiest part of the job is not just being woken up in the middle of the night but being woken up and having

00:47:32 > to drive to a freaking data center yup and like you know get in there and actually like you know hit on some servers like I mean it must be so great for quality of life you know essentially not they don't have to work as hard because they're all managed by someone else although technically amazon must have some people that know even they've managed to get away around it know what's what you do there's you just leave the broken servers in the racks who cares and you just move the workload yeah the ultimate lazy solution when you think about it and wreck it yeah all right all right we're coming up towards the end of the podcast but I wanted to ask you one thing because you've got an interesting data set and we talked about quantify itself we talk about date a lot you can tell me what the most popular habit is on lift which is an amazing data point what does the most popular habit I don't know it's exercise which is kind of a generalized version of a group of habits okay but yeah with is

00:48:34 > there more to that question because I have a couple of interesting things to say about it I do want to know more and I want to know what the number 21 is as well but first just tell me the interesting stuff that's what this is all about um so the top 5 i'll just read right here is exercise drink more water read floss meditate so it for us is in the top five well so what's hilarious a bunch of good anecdotes here floss is a really interesting one because it ties back to our earlier conversation about decision fatigue like here the early adopters have left are these incredibly successful ambitious people and they're the ones that made floss one of the top ones and if you think about it an ambitious person is just going to wear down their entire decision-making budget throughout the day decide to go to bed and be out of decisions so it's flossing these things these end of day routines or actually what they're most at risk for for missing but the other thing they

00:49:36 > really stood out to me as I went through our through our list is is there's almost like a Maslow's hierarchy of goals here where we want to be fit and healthy and feel good physically then we started to be ambitious about our careers and we want to be productive then we started to realize like oh hey I'm not the only a person that lives in this house I've got a wife like in a family I want to be home for dinner with my kids I want to make sure I tell her like there's a very active tell my wife I love her have it on side of lip inside of lip and then once you get there then you're ready to be the self-actualized person is giving back to to the community so there's things like you know talk to a stranger it's a really popular one which I mean it's the if you if you think about it we're so transactional with the strangers in our lives and if we just make eye contact with them and say how was your day and treat them like an actual human there's

00:50:38 > a random act of kindness you know like you start to get at people's generosity at that point it's kind of funny one of the reasons I moved to Vancouver Island I live in a relatively small town is if I go to the drugstore the cashier is going to look at me and say how are you doing and you know what she actually looks at me and if I said I was just dismembered by a bunny she would go what and if I said that in San Francisco the vast majority of the time person would say here's your change like they just don't hear they don't care and it's so transact and I find there's very little transactionally or maybe not enough so I'm kind of balanced because I know I'm on airplanes a lot to where it's highly transactional but it's so amazing what happens when you build that habit so I'm impressed to see that that's on lift yeah well we're we're about out of time but there's a question that I've made a habit of they're entitled in all right every guest on the show answers the question based on your entire life experience what are the top three most important things people do to be higher

00:51:39 > performance just to kick more ass it doesn't have to be any particular domain just what you've learned as the CEO as a human being number one know yourself like I think performing the number one thing for performance and myself release is to be doing things that are coherent with who I am right and so when we touched on it earlier like some people will give you advice that's made for them but not made for you and so lift for example I care about impact I don't care that much about being rich and so lift is a hundred percent about what is the most impactful way I could spend my time performance this is performance as a CEO it just performance as a human being like that things are most of our people want to kick more ass you might want to kick my house of being a dad or you might want to kick more acid being a CEO who knows or mom for that matter this is not a boys only show by a long shot forty percent of our audiences women all right I'm high forty percent I'm three uh number two is exercise man

00:52:40 > like in but I think it's not really exercise its selfishness right like when you talk to people that aren't exercising what they tell you is that they're too generous with their time they say like you know by the time I've taken care of my family and my co-workers and my job I didn't have time to exercise and like exercise is almost that you know canary in the coalmine of are you putting enough time into your own health that you will be effective in the long run and the number three gratefulness so I haven't you gratefulness habits every night before we go to bed my partner Sarah and I tell each other to good things and we've been doing this for almost a decade now and it started when she was in grad school and working full time and I was starting my first company and we had no money and we were completely stressed and so we said well is there life our lives that bad listen

00:53:42 > let's at least try and find something good from every day and then I do a similar thing at the end of every year I try and pick out 52 highlights from the year and I look back on each year and I'm like wow I thought it was a really stressful year based on you know working really hard but then when I look at the list of 52 good things it just changes my whole outlook and reminds me really how just how great my life is wonderful Tony thanks a ton for being on the show I really appreciate those tell me the URL for lift so that all of our listeners can figure out how to find you and look at your stuff to build Melfi habits yes please go to lift do li ft do and it should be pretty straightforward everyone can get started pretty quickly awesome have a great cool evening thanks man if you to appreciate it yeah i think the top three things are gonna say just

you know drink drink more coffee I love you man oh sorry okay drink drink wine and drink scotch it'll might those are my three things I have not heard those ones before see the head of foam that is formed on it this is similar to what you get with a latte they're actually little bubbles still coming to the surface just like a freshly steamed latte