Christopher Ryan: Sex, Sex Culture & Sex at Dawn

Video | Dave Asprey

00:00:00 > hey everyone welcome to bulletproof executive radio this is a special treat this is the first time ever that we're shooting video in my biohacking facility and this is pretty amazing we've got professional photography and you'll be able to listen to this in your car or you'll be able to watch it on YouTube or on the website so I'm really excited and our first ever video guest is very photogenic in his purple shirt here it's Chris Ryan author of sex at dawn sex at dawn is an amazing book that came out in about 2010 and this book was about societal changes around Oh societal history of how men and women interact sexually and in relationships and it I would say broke a lot of academic classes you could say it seems like you sort of shattered some myths and maybe caused a little bit of consternation amongst certain writers that's a little

00:01:01 > way to put it yeah some consternation yeah so aside from being the author of sexy Donna what are the other things in your background like tell us a little bit about yourself uh well I come from a family of academics my my dad taught in university my grandfather taught in university my mother taught in high school so I grew up around books and studied literature and as an undergraduate at Hobart College in upstate New York and what happened was I found a loophole in the student handbook that um that I figured out I could skip my junior year and still graduate on time thereby saving my parents a bunch of money and getting me out of town for a while so I decided this was 1983 I guess I decided I wanted to see a frontier that was my sort of fantasy because I was reading earlier we were talking about Moby Dick I was reading a lot of these sort of adventure novels Joseph Conrad and all these people on the road and so

00:02:03 > what I did was I hitchhiked from New York to Alaska and worked in salmon cannery Kenai Alaska for the summer and then hitch back to New York for my senior year and that that experience changed everything all these people on the road had all these adventures got in trouble I was in prison for a couple days and all this crazy stuff happened and it changed my life and I decided I wasn't going to go to grad school as I had planned I'd I was all set to go to Oxford and get a PhD in literature and this whole thing and I was like naina I'm gonna see the world so what happened was from that point until my mid-30s I basically backpacked around the world and had adventures and and did strange jobs all over the place and you know lived low to the ground the image I remember reading a long time ago an essay by Robert Frost where he says like

00:03:05 > a piece of ice on a hot stove a poem must ride its own melting nice and I thought of my own life that way I thought like I'm just gonna ride the melting of my innocence or my youth or whatever it is that's melting I'm going to ride that you know and so that's what I did and I didn't go back to grad school and get a PhD in psychology till the late rises the mid-90s so I was you know well into my 30s by then so that's that's my thing so I'm sort of like people think I'm a scientist or something but because I have a PhD in psychology I guess I am technically but really I'm more of a you know I guess an adventurer or something and I'm certainly not an academic I see you were born like 10 or 15 years too late uh yeah I guess so yeah because if I had you know I was I was born in 62 so in like you know 70 I was 8 and I can

00:04:08 > remember hanging out with my aunt and uncle who were really cool hippies you know they had the Volkswagen van and they had the big German Shepherd named Luke and they had the Crosby Stills Nash records and the funky friends and I and I'm eight and I was like these people are having a really good time you know and I'm a kid you know but if I were a little older you know I'd be right into this party so yeah I sort of did grow up with a bit of a frustration that I was born a little a little late and miss out on the whole 60s because then by the time I was fifteen sixteen it was disco and John Traill up done shit yeah I mean that it was a different party you know party I didn't really want to be it so that's my story so you don't see a lot of people with sort of that background becoming phd's after all that right life training so did you see a lot of stuff there that led you to write sex autonomy it's a pretty yeah Marshall book where you're basically making the case for

00:05:10 > non-monogamy it's not a safe way to put it well it's not a book of advocacy at all right it's not saying that non-monogamy is better than monogamy and in any ultimate sense but it's saying that the truth is that our ancestors evolved in a social context where sexuality was part of the whole social bonding of hunter-gatherer in groups and I mean the still you asked if I saw something on the road that led to that and I did because what happened was I was you know I was sort of spending a lot of time in Asia India Southeast Asia and Latin America and I saw how things that we assumed to be human nature are really very much cultural yeah you know whether we're talking about food or sexuality or you know you know in India people think cricket is a fantastic

00:06:13 > sport it to me it's just ridiculous right and parts of China it's actually am you okay well yeah there's that too there's cricket in this cricket yeah uh yeah sort of Thailand they're eating ants and all sorts of insects and it turns out they're really nutritious and I know yeah yeah it's called mini livestock these days in the US there's many livestock of the reason you know I could just imagine these tiny little guys on horses you know herding the ants but anyway yeah I got an appreciation for a multicultural perspective on these questions and I'm very interested in you know what is human versus what is cultural right and I've always been interested in that so we were talking earlier I did a lot of research and I know a lot of people in this sort of altered states intellectual crowd like you know Sacha Shulgin and some of the scholars of shamanism and that's a great opportunity to say okay

00:07:16 > we all experience these altered states we all dream we all have mythologies we all you know have spiritual tendencies so does that mean how do these things manifest in different cultures right so it gives you that opportunity to look at a universal that's shaped by a culture and I think sexuality is another one of those things yeah so the reason I went back to grad school was I you know I thought I wanted to get a PhD because I wanted to make a living with my brain I was getting tired of teaching English and you know I it's tough to make a living and so I thought you know I'm pretty smart and I can write and so if I have a PhD people take me a little more seriously which unfortunately is the case but I thought that studies in psychology were all watching rats and amazed behavioural this kind of stuff and I went to this place called fin Dorne in Scotland you ever heard of that

00:08:17 > I haven't heard of - it's a New Age center it was started in 1962 it's one of the oldest ones I had read about it in a book called the secret life of plants oh I know that book well it's an amazing biohacker book from the old school from the old school oh yeah from 66-67 sunlight so if you read the book again you'll you'll see that a lot of it they talk about fin Dorne it's this place in Scotland where they grew these monstrous cabbages and you know and all the stuff that it was growing and in the sand next to the North Sea and there's like no reason the stuff should be growing that's where they started talking to plants and playing a music and all that for people listening the secret life of plants is basically one of the first neurofeedback researchers the guy who invented the polygraph would hook up electrodes like these by the way these electrodes just live there I didn't just put them there for this so but he took him up to plants and you figured out that you could get a useful electrical signal of plants therefore there's something going on with plants that we didn't know about before that the book is controversial some people say it's hocus-pocus I think I had data I'm just

00:09:21 > saying when you have wood and it matches the hocus-pocus you got to reset your head so that's what we're talking about if this is if it's new to you I remember correct me if I'm wrong but I think they also talk in that book about they're getting the the electromagnetic readings from the plants and then they even when they think about cutting the leaf of the plant it there's a spike yeah though so there's some sort of telepathic communication going along with the plants yeah you can assign a consciousness to the spike or not but the fact is that when you think about it with a lot of double-blind like reasonably good research that something weird electrical happens in the plant before you cut it or if you come near with fire and things like that so it's some kind of primitive nervous system or electrical thing but it's worthy of more study in my biohacker opinion but it's also other people just really if that's possible then also two other things are possible and it makes them uncomfortable right threaten the paradigm yeah yeah consternation gracias so anyway I was at Finn horn and there I met I met people

00:10:23 > who had doctorates in psychology who were really interesting very open minded people right open of these sorts of place to go right right and so that's that was an epiphany for me like wow I could get a PhD in psychology there are places you know legitimate schools that that can do this but I don't need to become a rat counter you know I don't need to sacrifice a an open mind and or to do it so then I went home and I wrote a letter in the middle of the night to Andrew Weil who we were talking about I'm gonna go visit him in the next couple days he lives nearby and just out of the blue and his first four or five books are all about consciousness yeah before he got into the alternative medical stuff Andrew Wiles is a world-famous alternative medicine guy you've probably seen him he has this giant white beard and he's written cool books about mushrooms the hallucinogenic and non hallucinogenic kind and he's actually one of the first alternative medicine guys about 15 years ago that I

00:11:25 > started reading so he's someone who spent his career both on the consciousness and the alternative medicine side and when you bring those two things together and you attach electrodes and start quantifying it you kind of get bio acting so he's he's an amazing guy and so yeah I go visit him yeah yeah um just an aside to talk about Andrew Weil for a minute he went to Harvard did his bachelor's degree in botany then he went to Harvard Medical School I did not know that and did his residency at UMass in Boston so as as far as like a medical career like he's at the top of the top then from there he went to the National Institutes of Health and Bethesda which is the top research position you could get so he was like riding this wave he was there in the late 60s he was at Harvard when Timothy Leary was doing his stuff but anyway I just think it's really interesting that he started with botany right very few medical students study

00:12:27 > botany as undergrads it's almost unheard of yeah it's you know chemistry physics maybe whatever but bought me so he's got a very deep appreciation for plants and a much more holistic understanding of you know he's one of the guys one of the first guys who talked about how wrongheaded it is that we extract what we call the active principle of aspirin you know to you make a some way or a little Parker exactly yeah because there are so many other compounds that are in there that we might not understand how they work but they do they work together and that's why cocaine is so much worse than coca you know coca leaf is not bad at all actually it's pretty wonderful yeah anyway so that's Andrew well so I wrote this letter to Andrew while in the middle of the night really not thinking he'd even see the letter because I'm sure he gets hundreds of letters from desperately ill people but I just I said to him in this letter you know I admired his work and I wanted to do something in psychology that was sort of similar to what he had done in medicine because he

00:13:30 > doesn't reject the Western paradigm but he says it's it's good for certain things if you're in a car accident you go to the emergency room right but if you've got a chronic skin condition maybe you want to look into our vet ik or maybe there's something in Chinese medicine that would be you know less disruptive than taking corticosteroids or whatever so he he applies the appropriate cultural perspective based upon what the issue is and I wanted to do that in psychology so that's why I wrote to him two weeks later I came home there's a message on my answering machine he called you who called and I didn't put my number and at a gentleman he called the Spanish information and got my number and he left his message saying hey Chris it's Andy while got your car your letter thanks so much you know I'd love to talk to you about will give me a buzz so we've been friends ever since and that's my that's how I got to know him and I don't even remember what your question was but that's my big long answer to it yeah it was sort of how did

00:14:33 > you get here oh yeah no I've got to ask can we get Andrew while on the job Rogen show because you and I both been on Joe Rogan and I think that would be probably the most fascinating Joe Rogan show and we're gonna be out of the interesting yeah I'll talk to all about it we'll see I don't think he knows who Joe Rogan is they're different different segments but yeah but his his daughters going to be Andy's daughters up at the house and and I met her in Barcelona she's probably in her mid-20s now she probably knows who Joe Rogan is so I'll see I'll introduce in you know when she's there and if she's like dad you got to do then then maybe we can do it I mean Joe's walking out with a DMT molecule tattoo right that's not like this gotta be a connection between these guys and that would be probably like one of the top shows ever yeah all right well they definitely know a lot of the same people yeah you know like Dennis McKenna or the people like that yeah sure let's do it yeah you're beautiful so we can both ping Joe you ping all right we'll make it happen all right that sounds good yeah so let's

00:15:37 > talk some more about your book because I know a lot of people are really interested in in what what you said there about the history of human sexual relationships and monogamy so give us like the three minute cliff notes because okay sure there's some big questions buried in there and just to get everyone caught up here and ready boy well essentially a mainstream science says that since the beginning of humanity men have been obsessed with the fidelity of women of construe so the only way you can make sure that this child is yours is to control your mates sexual behavior right right so this sort of militant male jealousy over women is built right into our DNA because according to the logic a man doesn't want to invest in a child that isn't his child because in terms of evolutionary theory that would be a huge mistake

00:16:38 > right you're putting all your resources into a child that contains someone else's DNA then your life is a big disaster right according to that that way of looking at things so it's been assumed that there's like this built-in war between the sexes where women are looking for the best provider and men are looking for a woman with a lot of fertility that they can control throughout her fertile life so and then the men also want to screw around and sleep with other women because it doesn't cost anything to have an orgasm whereas the woman's trying to control so the whole men men and women are locked in this battle of the sexes right or as I think John grace you know men are from Mars Women are from Venus right use a friend right so what what a Casilla and I argue in sex at dawn is that this way of looking at sexuality this this sort of conflict between men and women is not built into our nature

00:17:40 > is not evolved into our DNA in fact this is an economic struggle that only came onto the scene about 10,000 years ago with the advent of Agriculture and this way of looking at each other this way of looking at children this way of thinking in terms of investment of resources all this stuff this is a post agricultural way of looking at relationships so sex and on is the paleo sex book right that's that's essentially what it is yeah so we're what we argue insects have done is that the the nature of human sexuality is like our closest primate relatives the chimps and the bonobos is a much more promiscuous model which is why long term sexual monogamy is so difficult for us for men and why 50% of marriages fail sort of thing right right you know and and how many of the other 50% have failed but they just stay married you know I mean it if you assume a small percentage you got more than half right yeah so um yeah and it's funny you know I said it in an interview

00:18:42 > recently if 50% of parachutes didn't open we'd be redesigning parachutes right but you know we've got 50% of marriages that fail events of first marriages then second marriages it's a higher proportion and so on so but we're still insisting no no this is nature this is the way it's supposed to be you know anyway the three I've gone beyond the three minutes but essentially what where are you a insects adonys we say okay let's look at the the four most relevant sources of information on the mating systems of our ancestors so we look at primatology right the primates most closely related to humans chimps and bonobos we look at human anatomy what's the design of our body say about the way our ancestors sex lives work interestingly it says a lot we look at contemporary psycho sexuality Yuri sir on what sort of porn turns people on how men and women respond differently to different things and then we look at the

00:19:44 > anthropological literature so how do hunter-gatherer people or pre agricultural people in different parts of the world how do they deal with sexuality is there evidence in in anthropology that our ancestors dealt with sex far differently than we'd assume turns out all those sources of information conspire or or come together in one vision of our ancestor sexuality which is scandalous for some people but you know look look around us you know you ever heard of a book called the erotic engine now it's interesting though I don't remember the author's name but the argument is that every advance in technology and communication technology is fueled by a hunger for sex in my career and cloud computing is like that you know what do you think Skype video came from straight out of horn there you go I mean all of the other online payments you know that those technology I mean early photography VHS

00:20:45 > yeah you know like yeah all that stuff though the initial money comes from this hunger for more first lunar probe there's a probe okay yeah we just brought the academically uh crashing crashing to the floor alright so I went way over my 300 there that's that's the elevator good that was perfect so why now I'm sure there's a few eyebrows raised amongst people listening is saying what but you did something that I think is really important that PhD researchers tend to do but don't talk about that much which is the quantification of this you're saying well look at the data right if 50 percent of people are doing this and then you look at these other like sort of hints there and you can either say I don't like the data therefore it must be wrong and I'm going to change it which unfortunately happens in some settings or you can say all right now that this is in my paradigm this is my awareness what are the puzzle pieces that fit and then I thought was really cool about your book is alright and yeah you did

00:21:46 > you did piss off a few people to be perfectly honest who'd you piss off the most I hope steven pinker uh but he hasn't you know given me the satisfaction of telling me whether he's pissed off I nod but yeah we we got we got into it a bit with Steven Pinker not about sexuality but about his theories of prehistoric warfare which is sort of there's a part the center of the book is a section where we don't really talk about sex much but we say well if we're talking about how sexuality fit into the whole social dynamic of our ancestors then we have to talk about other aspects of their social life so we talk about family structure power relationships politics economics and the thing is it turns out that among all hunter-gatherer people they remember all all of our ancestors lived as hunter-gatherers until about 10,000 years ago at the earliest and anatomically modern human

00:22:48 > beings are thought to have first come on the scene about 200,000 years ago some discussion you know maybe hundred fifty thousand years Hey oh yeah well that's just well that's a different conversation but among the non jesus-freak crowd yeah bout a two hundred thousand years ago so we're talking about over ninety five percent of our existence as a distinct modern species that we lived as hunter-gatherers so that's very relevant to what kind of animal we are just like wolves are very relevant to an understanding of dogs right you got a sort of look at where an animal comes from so all every hunter-gatherer community that's ever been studied in any part of the world whether it's Papua New Guinea or Brazil or the Inuit or whatever they all share resources and anthropologists refer to them as fierce egalitarians so and the reason for this isn't that they're noble savages or they're you know inherently better

00:23:49 > people somehow it's that when you're living in a fluid interdependent hunter-gatherer group the best way to mitigate risk is through sharing also you're all nomadic so you're carrying everything so everybody doesn't want to be schlepping around their own cooking pot and their own this and their on that it just makes more sense to share right so it turns out that the sharing of resources is the central organizing principle of hunter-gatherer societies not the hoarding of private property as it is in our society one of the the shamans that I've done some work with or at least a book I read was talking about how you can own time or space and that prehistoric people basically said that we own time so we don't own space and then if you want to own your property own space then you lose control of time and you start you know fearing the aging and the death so it's like really radical fundamental like assumptions about reality behind things but when you go back that that period of time like how long was the date I don't know we didn't have watches I was a long day or kind of a short day but like like it was

00:24:50 > much less of a focus cognitively yeah so it changed the consciousness of things and I was also thinking about how you said that people like wouldn't want to share you know sort of the the perspective that we're all protecting our women and making sure that you know there are their hours from a individual perspective that works from a species perspective it doesn't work at all right so the question is you know is it the selfish gene where just each person's genes one win and other some element of that in evolution but I think also the species kind of wants to win and survive and we're uniquely adapted to survive ice ages and those are the things that kill other people because we've got the genes but we've also got the sharing right what we do better than any other species is is adapt and not adapt as individuals but adapt as a species adapt to that right a superorganism right so we're able to cooperate in ways that no other animal can cooperate and to

00:25:51 > innovate brainstorm among individuals so we're able to configure and reconfigure almost like the way the brain reconfigures and in ways that no other species is able to do and sharings a big part of that and this idea that I've got my wife and my kids and I go out and shoot here and I bring it back and I'm going to use that meat to feed my wife and my kids and the hell with all the rest of you that's not the way it works that's the opposite of the way it works so in the book we say that this tendency to look at the the modern world and the way things work in this world and to project that into prehistory as a way to sort of justify and explain the modern world we call that Flintstone ization all right never fails Kaizen yeah so it's funny when yeah we're talking about animal models when you read mainstream treatments or even some scientific popular scientific treatments of this question of monogamy you'll often read

00:26:52 > about prairie voles and swans and penguins and you know and that's like if your dog is you know tearing up your your sofa are you gonna go get a book about penguins to try to understand your dog well there's the Greek woman who turned into a swan that ties it all delete lead Leah yeah late as ice what she didn't turn into this one she got raped by so sorryi Seuss transformed himself into a swan and raped her selfish use genes that cousin yeah anyway so if you're going to look at animal models you got to look at the animals most closely related which are chimp but but no of course yeah okay I'm by this so one of the questions that I know our listeners are eager to hear is like what are the common things people do that hurt their sexual performance things like that I mean we really kind of got into the sociological aspects but right you've got some advice on that front uh well I think the main

00:27:53 > thing the main danger that I would I would watch out for is unrealistic expectations which relates back to the book of course because what we're trying to say in the book is not you shouldn't be monogamous or you should be monogamous or you know we're not giving advice on how people should live their sex lives but what we are saying is at least start from a realistic assessment of what kind of animal Homo sapiens is Yeah right so once you understand that then give yourself and your partner a break because if you choose monogamy if and and let's face it you know in the world the way it's configured right now it's kind of hard not to be monogamous or at least pretend to be you know so so a lot of people are going to choose to live a monogamous life which I often say is like choosing to be a vegetarian you know it can be economical it can be

00:28:55 > ethical there are lots of reasons why being a vegetarian can be a really good decision but don't expect it to come naturally right it's a viable path but it's an uphill path and just because you've decided to become a vegetarian doesn't mean that bacon suddenly doesn't smell good anymore right so understand where these appetites come from and accept that they're going to be there no matter what you choose to do no matter how you choose to live your life you're still going to have these appetites you're still going to be interested in other people no matter how much you love your partner people have this misunderstanding that if you love someone then you'll only be attracted to that person fact is it doesn't work that way yeah and the fact that you think about other people or you're attracted to other people or you fantasize about other people and so on that doesn't mean there's a problem with your marriage or your relationship it doesn't mean there's a problem with your partner or a problem with you it just means you're homo sapien that's what happens when you

00:29:56 > put this animal in that situation so I think that's the main thing that'd be you know it's like it everything becomes this death spiral like you know erectile dysfunction right most erectile dysfunction is psychological it's not feels like physiological in most cases so what happens you've got a problem you know you don't get a hard-on or something the worst thing you can do is freak out about it because then it becomes a recurring yeah if you don't freak out about it and you realize there are lots of ways to make love that don't even involve your penis then there's no problem you know next time everything works so you know it's like what they said about politics the the cover-up is the crime you know the chronic cover-ups worse than the crime or whatever same thing in sexuality like often the the guilt and the shame and the the response to the situation is a much bigger problem than the situation itself some of the bio hacking techniques around controlling the sympathetic nervous system have a

00:30:58 > huge impact in the bedroom because they teach you to consciously turn off that fight-or-flight like oh no like you know she won't love me I didn't get it up or whatever that sort of thing is that's going on your head in terms of your experiences both you know writing the book and doing research for the book and just in general life like what are the things that people can do to to basically short-circuit that kind of guilt shame thing that happens in the bedroom well you know I think mindfulness is is very important whether just self-awareness and and as I was saying awareness of what sort of creature we are via you know people I started we're talking about Ted I started my TED talk by saying we didn't descend from apes we are Apes right now I think that's a really important point to keep in mind we are eight so we are animals we sleep and eat and shit and do all the things that all every other animal does and so you know to try to to

00:32:01 > get confused about the fact that we are animals and we have these animal appetites nature and so on that becomes very problematic we may be spiritual beings but we're spiritual beings in an animal body and we have to acknowledge that so I think you know for me the the the key to to dealing with these sorts of issues is always compassion and compassion for the self you know without compassion for the self there can be no compassion for others so I guess that's why I'm a lazy undisciplined bastard because I just have much compassion for myself I kid myself too many breaks hey there's nothing wrong with laziness I'm the first guy to say hurry meditate faster but taste you're long having yeah let's face it you know every time I try to meditate it's just like a porn film festival I mean I I'm sorry I did a 10 Davie pass in a retreat you know 10 days

00:33:03 > of silence and man it was just ten days of you know bad porn in my head I I don't know what that says about me you believe it or not when you're doing that kind of meditation you're trying to get your alpha brainwaves higher mmm one of the things that I learned doing the 40 years is in kind of training that that I've done is that if you want to raise your alpha waves a lot think about sex really yeah and you can see it so if when you're kind of surfing your brain waves and you realize that you're stuck like you can't get it up and you kind of box yourself in and you can't get it up get your brainwaves up you can hear a sound when you're off waves get higher so then all you have to do is think about crests or whatever and all the sudden you'll you'll breaker and you'll bring it back so it's actually a technique that is totally okay so if what you were doing was working on getting her alpha brainwaves higher during the possum unconsciously worker oh yeah it could have been your brain just saying hey like sex has a positive effect on this specific thing and where do you think has the highest alpha brainwaves of all Zen masters yeah they

00:34:05 > have some other brain ways mixed in there but they're they get your really high alpha in the back set that moves to the front so there you go you're feeling guilty about your Vipassana performance but it goes up I mean well you felt competitive right if the idea is to focus the brain right the one thing that you know for a lot of people it's easiest to focus the brain on is sexy food in sex yeah two big ones right comes naturally our am sorry there you go we are promiscuous Apes yeah yeah yeah it's interesting like even talking about animal models gorillas people don't realize gorillas a fully erect gorilla penis is about the size of your pinky finger that's that's all the gorillas got and gorillas testicles are the size of kidney beans Wow whereas a chimpanzee or a bonobo testicles are the size of a chicken egg Wow yeah so you know we're talking about anatomical correlates to mating behavior that's one of the big ones the testicular the ratio of testicular size to overall body size that tells you how

00:35:06 > promiscuous the females in any given species are so female gorillas only have sex with the alpha male with the silverback that's why his penis and testicles are so small because there's no sperm competition taking place right the competition takes place between the individuals so if we were gorillas you and I would fight whoever wins would control all the females the other one gets expelled from the group Linnton so you've got these roving bands of angry bachelors in her life where as in chimps and bonobos as particularly in bonobos what you have is everybody's getting laid all the time and so the competition on Darwinian competition is taking place within the females reproductive tract between the sperm cells so that allows the development of larger social groups with multiple males because we're not always fighting over access to females we're all getting laid that way we can coordinate hunting trips and you know do all these other things that make us a

00:36:09 > much more powerful species yeah from a species wide perspective there are obvious advantages to that model we take care of each other's kids yeah you go hunting one day and come back empty-handed but I got something so we all eat the next day you get something I don't we all eat again the biggest example that I can think of there is when you're stopped at an intersection in most major cities and there's that kind of wretched looking homeless guy asking for money they do that because people know that you share and so not everyone shares but someone always does enough that these guys keep doing it and the people who don't share and suffer from that yeah we all suffer from from inequality you know I'm sure you've read the research that economic inequality leads to significant health deterioration you know obviously for the people at the bottom because they're not getting incest in the u.s. not getting access to health care and so on but it creates stress for everybody it creates stress

00:37:10 > for the people at the top I've got friends who are extremely wealthy and I can see that they there are psychological defense mechanisms that they develop over time because it's difficult for them they're their Wonder and I've been I've never been extremely wealthy but I have spent a lot of my time backpacking through places like India and the fact what I paid for my airline ticket to get there is more than those families will make in 20 years so I have been extremely wealthy right because I've put myself in this position it's all relative anyway and you can see I saw it in myself developing mental psychological defense mechanisms so that I can live with the fact that I've got money in my pocket that could save this family but I'm not going to give it to them yeah you know that hurts and so you need to develop these the scar tissue in a way so you can continue to live in this context I've got some experience

00:38:11 > with that when I was 26 I made six million dollars mmm in the.com boom so I was you know I came from relatively middle-class to poor family and all of a sudden like I have more money than God and and all sort of like whoa wait like should I give some of that money it's actually it was really stressful yeah to get all the money and then of course the company bankrupt a couple years later and it was even more stressful to lose all the mind just like go up and then come back down and then you know kind of go back nose to the grindstone and just sort of realize what a dumb ass I'd been okay but I had all the money because you know I I didn't do more things to help more people and I didn't honestly take care of my money or myself because no one teaches you we're going to do when you become wealthy especially at a young age right and since then I have some clients who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars in my bulletproof coaching practice and it's very interesting most of them are are keenly aware of suffering the world and they identify problems and they go after it and then you get other guys like Bill

00:39:12 > Gates he didn't do squat his entire like active career for like don t give any money to charity and then when he was done he's like good God would I do with all this well ok we'll start the foundation now they're doing things like they're going after Monsanto very cool yeah but the psychological ride for me to be you know relatively poor extremely wealthy build the scar tissue and then like crash again and be relatively poor again you know at least by by the standards of Silicon Valley not necessarily by the standards of India right but you're coming about there being scar tissue there is phenomenal and you're tying up back to essentially sperm competition yeah how did that it's it's a it's very cool because what you're saying is like if our society set up for sharing even when you get wealthy if you don't share right it costs you and it's a subtle biological thing but you're not part of the system when you do that you're yeah above it well I'm writing a book now called civilized to death I was going to ask you about that yeah let's do it prevent that's part of it I essentially the argument of the book is that we are

00:40:15 > living in this artificially created environment that we've created for ourselves that is directly in conflict with a lot of our evolved appetites so where sex Adan focuses primarily on the sexual aspect of that conflict this new book is looking at other things like and you know there are a lot of there are a lot of books that look at stuff like this like Michael Pollan's work with diet and the book you probably read Born to Run yeah you know McDowell go smoke about movement and so they're they're different people looking at different aspects of this a lot of your work is looking at aspects of this as well what I'm trying to do in this book is look at less things that people haven't looked at yet like this relationship to money for example or power I mentioned earlier politics it's very interesting that in these egalitarian societies like the ones we evolved in the worst thing you can do in terms of getting accruing

00:41:18 > power is to express any interest in wanting to be a leader so someone who wants to be the leader is considered ridiculous right and pathetic so he'll never be elite right leadership goes to people who have no interest in being leader so you look at that you know in terms of our political system like all these you know the Senate is full of ego maniacs yeah you know they're they're crazed for power and they're exactly the worst people to be in positions of power because they abuse it of course they do it's like sending an alcoholic to go buy some wine for the party you know it's he's not going to come back with the wine he's going to be drunk halfway that you don't want people who are intoxicated by power to be in positions of fire but that's what we do we do everything upside down it's all backwards and weird you know and as your experience testifies we've set this whole thing up where we're chasing money or power whatever it is but we do it in

00:42:19 > a way that achieving it contaminates the prize right so if you end up succeeding and getting all that money then what you have you have a life were you're suspicious of your friends because they're all trying to use you or you're afraid they are every woman you're with you're not sure she's really into you or she's got some agenda yeah everything becomes ugly and stressful it having money at large numbers like that is terribly stressful in ways that you would never predict you're absolutely right so you're going to cover this in your book yeah yeah I mean do this I'm going to do the frustration of adolescent sexuality that you hear we live in this society you you were a teenage boy I was a teenage boy okay you're 14 all you can think about is sex but you're not going to get laid for quite a while so does not getting some make you kill people I think it can I think that I think we underestimate or we don't talk about how intense that

00:43:21 > frustration is and those are long years right 14 15 16 17 years and I think that that extreme frustration that a lot of people feel at those ages can manifest as misogyny I think a lot of these serial killers a lot of you know just asshole dudes who hate women that's why they hate women because they went through those years where they wanted something that women controlled and women weren't giving it to them and they couldn't figure out how to get it so they either they respond with anger and aggression or you know maybe they get into the hole the game and the the pickup scene and you know try to figure it out doing by the book which is there's some misogyny in some aspects of that world not all of them but yeah i think i think it's a significantly under reported under considered aspect of Western civilization there's a guy named

00:44:22 > Prescott who did a meta-analysis he wanted to understand the relationship between adolescent sexual frustration and violence and society and he found that I think he looked at 27 societies and with one only one exception didn't fit this rule the Mohave I think the other 26 in every case societies that allow adolescents to express themselves sexually had proportionately lower levels of violence so there's almost a sense in which we create the sexual frustration in adolescents as a way to sustain a warlike Society Wow yeah when you get past adolescence I've given a talk and I did a year-long sort of study where I looked at the Taoists equation for immortality which says you take your age in years you subtract 7 and divide by 4 and that's the number of days for men that

00:45:25 > should be spaced out that you should have between your ejaculations and I tested the results of that on basically my general happiness level so I quantified my daily happiness and satisfaction with everything and I tried the 8 day and I tried the 30 day thing and the 30 days was one of the hardest things that I can do it you know I'm 40 I've reasonably healthy sex drive but to basically not ejaculate for 30 days straight was an enormous act of will and honestly it took like three months of trying before I could learn how to manage that impulse this is a grown man right yeah as a teenager the equation would obviously be like every day or two but but still it I wonder if there's as you get older and as you get wiser and you get more mature whether there's like changes that you're planning to talk about or you're thinking about or the just that you've you've experienced yeah definitely and I think part of that or monel area is testosterone levels decrease one of the things we talk about

00:46:27 > in the book which relates to linearly or questions as well is we talk about how common it is for men middle-aged men to who have been monogamous for a long time to have an affair and then convince themselves they're in love and belief their families and you know sort of throw everything away and one of the things we hypothesized in the book is that it's very interesting that one of the very few things that will reliably increase a man's testosterone levels is having sex with a novel partner so here's a guy right in his mid 40s whatever kind of tired and rundown and you know married for a long time and it has an affair and suddenly colors are richer and food tastes better and the music's and you know he feels young again so what's he think he thinks he's in love it must be love I think we just figured out that bioidentical testosterone supplementation might make

00:47:30 > you more basically have a higher degree of fidelity oh really I mean it seems like it I just thought of that but you're right that's one of the things that happens there I've been using testosterone since I was thirty not to get my little bull tro high you know you know I'm super ripped but just because I was a beast it I mean I was 300 pounds really oh yeah and I was pretty unhealthy when I was young I'd arthritis my knees when I was 14 type I kind of suffered a lot and you know I saw stretch marks so I was like all right I'm gonna get on testosterone went to an anti-aging physician got my numbers I've been doing this for 10 years my numbers have never been about behind of the rain but I wonder what my color is you know what my zest for life would be like if I let it plan done that like yeah who knows maybe I'd feel you know amazingly attracted to you know all these other women and then act on it versus now because my testosterone sigh I'm like yeah like she's attractive my wife is real attractive too but like I'm gonna have sex with one of them every 11 days right now I guess yours

00:48:33 > would be little I was calculating my number earlier would you like me yeah I'm about 11 it's not you can have sex more office you don't worry actually yeah here's the corollary to that which is kind of cool the less often you ejaculate the more often you have sex well because you're like I gotta get something I get like like so you actually feel much younger you did I really did feel a massive improvement in in just my general happiness with life I was shocked at the difference in the numbers oh I'll give that shot and I'm plus the carpal tunnel improved dress oh wait we're on the air there's one of your sponsors the fleshlight lady Janna no no that's an old old Rogan sponsor okay really yeah they sponsor Grogan for like a year that's hilarious and I was talking about it and he was like yeah I think they pulled out because they figured they'd sold this movie flex lights to my audiences they were gonna get yeah yeah anyway I knew we were gonna get to the fleshlight we got to get to the

00:49:35 > fleshlight yeah it's good for the carpal tunnel so when is your new book coming out I don't know I got to write the damn thing I'm sort of I'm in the midst of writing it now spring to summer oh guest year of 2014 yeah I'm looking for that thank you love to have you on the show again oh thanks that would be great yeah now you've got a podcast too and I'm sure a lot of people hear this are gonna want to check out what you're doing you've had some oh cool a nominal guests on there yeah I'd like to get you on there it's called tangentially speaking they can find it you can find it at chris ryan PhD calm that's my site or it's on iTunes and stitcher and you know it's it's all over the place you'd expect tangentially speaking yeah in fact just yesterday ah really fascinating episode I just put up it's today's Monday it's going up today but I ended it yesterday with Moshe kasher and Reggie Watts to comedian actors and very

00:50:36 > interesting talking to Tim O'Shea he was raised by deaf parents oh wow and he worked for a while as an interpreter for deaf people making phone calls and he tells these amazing stories you never think about like a deaf guy who wants to call a sex hotline right he it would go through him so so Moshe is like doing the interpreting between this woman on the sex hotline and this deaf guy who wants to get off Wow you know or another example he gave was calls from like these Nigerian scam artists they call deaf people and and legally and this is a state-funded program for deaf people as the interpreter you cannot insert yourself into the conversation so even if you like he talked about a case where the guy was saying okay I'll be on a flight to Nairobi on Tuesday and Moshe as the interpreters thinking dude do not go

don't do that but he can't say anything Wow yeah anyway that's gonna be a cool show yeah yeah it's it's a very conversational show it's really interesting people Neil Strauss hopefully you Andrew while Peter sagal all these people but it's very like a whatever whatever comes up is what we talked about I'll make sure we include the URL for that in our show notes the other thing is going to happen is we have a full transcript of what we talked about the building up so people can search this for interesting words like fleshlight or whatever is great all right it's been a pleasure having you on the show thanks for making it out to Maya by lighting facilities it's an honor to be to be in the lair yeah in the Batcave awesome thanks everyone thanks