Natasha Vita-More: Transhumanism, Technology & the Future

Video | Dave Asprey

00:00:00 > Natasha vetem or PhD is an American designer in theorists she's co-editor and author of the transhumanist reader classical and contemporary essays on the science technology and philosophy of the human future and she's also the author of primo horse posthuman which is a pioneering future whole body prototype she's a professor at the university of advancing technology fellow at the institute of ethics and emerging technologies and she's chairman of the board at humanity plus now for listeners of the podcast who haven't come across this sort of thing before it's pretty remarkable humanity plus is the magazine is sort of the institute around the transhumanism movement the transhumanist movement is something we're going to talk about today and I'm actually going to ask natasha in my first question what it is and somebody I've been following for oh good god nearly a decade now so

00:01:03 > Natasha please tell us what this is and welcome to the show I'm so excited I think a lot of our readers or listeners have never heard of transhumanism so you're going to be breaking new ground here Oh superb great I love it as long as I don't make a sinkhole yeah you won't do that transhumanism is a worldview that started actually as a codified philosophy in the early 1990s when dr. max Moore wrote the philosophy but it stems from a broad range of perspectives about human evolution the human condition ethics about human enhancement looking at the emerging respective technologies that are intervening with biology and extending of lives and also making our lives more wonderful more joyous more focused our consciousness more aware on intellection smarter or health basically as the primary aspect of it to bring about better health and understanding the term transhuman means a transhuman in

00:02:05 > transition so the human biology as far as a transhuman is concerned would mean that the merging with technology more and more it differs from the concept of the cyborg in that the cyborg is a machine augmentation to human biology undeveloped by Manfred clients and Nathan climb back in the days of cybernetics when we were thinking about going out into space knowing that our biology just could not exist in space due to solar arrays and 0g on the bone structure of the body however the transhuman is steering its own evolution so it's a totally different concept it's about the human in becoming something other than solely or totally biological it's a self-directed evolution of movement that your readers or your listeners i should say well know a lot about is quantified self which was developed by Kevin Kelly the brain person behind Wired magazine quantified self is about technology in humans and people come together at meetups all over

00:03:06 > the world and talk about taking responsibility for their lives that is extremely transhumanists in scope so I hope that narrows it down to the issue of self-responsibility we're alive now let's protect it and let's see how long we can live so if I was to translate that you were born inside a science fiction novel and you never came out of it how much events just interestingly enough I have hardly read sighs Julie that shocks me I brother I love everything you were just saying but I know for a lot of people who are driving listening to this right now that their eyes could be crossing already so what you're saying if I was to try and play it back to you in one sentence is that the human evolution itself of the biological organism is something that we should take control of versus something we should just replace which would be the idea of you know becoming a cyborg I think so now of course with the transhuman concept as far as human enhancement is concerned we are

00:04:07 > replacing body parts more people walk around today with transplants and implants and prosthetic limbs and we're going to be seeing more and more of that happening and refined being designed by basically engineers with an aesthetic sensibility so that it will be personalized prosthetics so again the cyborg is just augmenting the body with machines the transhuman is a self-directed evolution to remain solely biological we really can't extend the human lifespan unless we intervene with genetic engineering isolating what causes aging and reversing it or stopping it to the largest degree but the bottom line is our biology is extremely fragile and no matter how much we exercise or eat healthy food and meditate live a joyous healthy life surround ourselves with positive people we still can get disease and if we have injury for in a car accident for example we suffer and possibly die so the issue

00:05:10 > here is how do we prevent this onslaught of death so early in our life spans um you think about it 122 years is not that long to be alive in one life and one existence so we'd like to push that a little bit further and um create healthier lives for a longer period of time in a nutshell that's it the work that I've been doing for the past decade or so at the Silicon Valley Health Institute is all around anti-aging and it's very much so how do we push our existing hardware that the body as far as it'll go and I appreciate the work you're doing just saying well alright it's only going to go so far and what do we do after that which is obviously the next step in anti-aging but what do you think that the human body is going to look like in just ten years how fast is this going to happen to us you know we always think things happen faster than they do in and there are many futurists who make predictions I'm not one who

00:06:12 > does that I a more of a theoretician and a designer so I look at what's possible I look at the world as far as systems thinking much like but Mr Fuller and looking at what works together where the variables are what we can do now to help self-direct possible scenarios and there's not just one future there is multiple options for futures and it all depends on the decisions will make about our lives as individuals in society but if we take a look at where we would be ten years from now certainly the trends show that will be enhancing the body more and more with devices that are external smartphone and Android iOS applications that we download perpetually communication that is 24 7 and and all the different social media formats that we have but I think more importantly than that aspect of it is learning about our DNA there is an organization called 23andme where we can have our DNA identified for I think it's

00:07:13 > $99 still I had mine done i think a year and a half ago two years ago i'm not sure but we can find out what diseases we have a propensity for based on our genetic makeup so that's something important to know so we can start living our lives with an awareness of that other things we can do of course as you know and you're an advocate of this exercise I spend five to seven days a week in the gym but I also relax a lot and party a lot so it's it's got to be fun I eat healthy I of a semi paleo diet I like your idea for your morning coffee haven't tried it yet but I'm really looking forward to doing I'm gonna try it probably hopefully tomorrow the beans are at the singularity institute there's a lot of people there who are into vulgar coffee so if you want a mac will send them to you the singularity institute is no longer in existence sorry i used the wrong name what's it called down it's Alera t university sorry i don't know does not big difference yeah i'm an advisor to attract the ethics track the singularity university and i hope to be there in

00:08:15 > august for their events um but yeah i like the idea of this coffee that we put butter in that that does provide some level of protein and the issue here is getting healthy food preparing our food in a healthy way and mastication not masturbation mastication so we eat your food make sure that you you know take time to chew it so that the your saliva can get the elements out of the food the nutritious elements and help your digestive tract absorb them otherwise you're just putting food in goes in one out other we have to make sure the food is healthy and we take our time eating it other practices for life extension of course I believe very strongly in transcendental meditation I've been doing it since I was 18 years old yoga I studied yoga with Bikram uh in Los Angeles I mean in Beverly Hills i should say for three and a half years at his studio with Bikram and you know Bikram Yoga is become major it's very difficult

00:09:18 > it's more like gymnastics than young spiritual yoga but these are things that we can be dueling on a daily basis the issue that you mentioned about where are we going in the future what is the body going to become the body is going to become more of a self-directed self responsible vehicle for our existence for our consciousness and awareness of course I think that we're going to be looking more deeply inside the body and identifying diseases earlier I think that's one of the major trends in identifying our lifespan and and our health level being aware we have apps on our smartphones we need apps inside our body that are communicating with our brain and telling us what's going wrong if there is a certain illness coming up our souls may be mutating in dis advantageous ways when we're fertile when we're going through different moods of maybe depression or anxiety so we need to be more aware of our body this

00:10:19 > vehicle that our awareness is located in my own work with primo post-humans which is now become a platform diverse bodies and autonomous bodies is to look at building whole body prosthetics as an alternative to our biology so that we could have semi biological systems that are largely technologically driven but do have major sensorial awareness and all the feelings and emotions that we have within our biological system so it has to mirror that in large part but the direction that we're really heading is to have full body prosthetics because our biology just is not good enough and again we see more more people walking around with no artificial hips veneer teeth different limbs and it's not something we desire to be sure it's something that we have to replace in order to stay alive and active that's a really important point and when I want it to drill in on because by now some people listening you're probably thinking well that sounds unappealing you know put my brain in a toaster oven and then the

00:11:20 > toaster ovens my body is kind of the downside image of that but you're saying it's better than dying you're not saying it's better than whatever you have now well young yeah it's better than dying I'm sure someone who is in a wheelchair and I have many friends who are paralyzed in wheelchairs would rather be alive in your wheelchair than dead I that Stephen Hawkins um the exemplar scientists is happy to be alive even though he has ALS and it's you know it's pretty bad he can only communicate through an artificial voice computerized dictation so you know who are we to say when someone ought to die just because they lose a limb or have a you know a very difficult and untimely disease so people want to stay alive as long as they possibly can as long as they have a hope for life or a desire to produce or you know feel loved or you'll want to give up those are human natural instincts that we need to protect uh but

00:12:26 > I think that um a whole body prosthetic could possibly be and let's use the term better because that's a term you use could be better than biology in that it could be more durable more flexible more sustainable longer lasting less trouble less disease not so many issues with having no to constantly be monitoring our bodies our temperature or viruses bacteria that infiltrate our body now I want to make a caveat here it's true that our computers get viruses and we're constantly having to protect her computer is so it's very obvious to me that if we did have a whole body prosthetic that was technologically driven that mirrors are biological system in large part that we would have to have very smart hacking systems to make sure that we are responsible for our body that we would know how to hack it our self and also be aware of who else might hack it so we become experts in protecting ourselves but I think that's the wave of the future no matter if

00:13:27 > we're biological species or a semi biological species or you know a ghost human species that we will we will and we need to become more responsible about our own lives and cherishing and protecting and nurturing our lives it's a really interesting trade-off if you look at the environmental effects of eating just the system's impact of that its enormous like we've basically done some pretty amazing things to the soil not necessarily good amazing things to the soil on the planet and we spend so much energy gathering food and if you were solar powered and you had essentially a non-biological body you could do some very very different things that would be less impactful than what you're doing now it's kind of like you know way beyond the you know the I ate everything local to I didn't eat anything and I changed my my power pack every five years and I recycle the one I changed out like it's it's incredibly futuristic though it sounds like something that might happen in a thousand years but there's the rate of

00:14:29 > technology change and I know as a futurist that it's really hard to say well when's it going to happen and you've got guys like Ray Kurzweil Jose 2087 is when the singularity but like there's so many things that need to happen here and there's so much strife on the planet you've got you know people starving and wars and major issues around just getting enough food into people do you and if you're to lay odds as a futurist as to how likely is the vision that you're painting here to happen at all and how likely is it to happen within 50 years what are your percentage of odds that you lay down on that it depends on specifically what we're referring to if it is life extension and living beyond the human biological imitation of a say approximately hundred twenty-two years or is it whole body prosthetics which whole body prospects I think we got the 120 years in the bag like that's that's gonna happen before I have 120 and I'm actually not so worried about it if you have enough money yeah and then

00:15:31 > that and then you know in our society we drive the price down and that's something that we do and it's a proven fact so the have-nots will be the have so I think that eventually and the gap in in the prices coming down get shorter and shorter all the time so I think there'll be a fair amount of abundance for everyone as long as there are no heavy regulations and restrictions by bullies you know whatever card they're carrying you know anyways so I think that what we want to do is make everything available to everyone no one should be left behind in in any scenario about the future so now let me ask answer your question there has to be a level of understanding about scientific and technological advancement in order to have a whole body prosthetic you have to have a person and personhood is the philosophical term for a continuation of identity over time you are who you were yesterday we're here right now okay that's me again now another second this

00:16:32 > is me again now so in tomorrow I'll be me then so it's this continuity of our identity which forms personhood so that's who we are and we can change certainly our nature or behaviors or values whatnot over time but we still continue because are who we are now is based on our memories and our experiences of who we were a moment ago so in that regard the continuation of personhood well then we would say who is person where is it located well for many of us who look at life extension we consider or I shouldn't speak for myself I consider personhood to be located in the brain now if the brain is where our cognitive properties are located and are thinking apparatus take take action and our awareness is designated including our memories and our emotions and our feedback then in the brain is what we would call the the location or the environment of personhood it's who we are so within that environment too we

00:17:33 > have something called consciousness perception awareness everyone wants to use online and we still don't know exactly what consciousness is if people have been studying it for for eons and very brilliant minds have been studying it and there's still no definitive answer to appolicious just suppose if mine is located with personhood in the brain somehow including outside systems that we cannot identify because we have limited perceptions just as giving a slight open window a door to that opportunity or possibility with all this in mind then it seems to me the most important issue here is to back up the brain because you just can't have a whole body prosthetic without a person in it so we would need first before we have robotic prosthetics as an alternative to a biological body or in addition to a biological body we need to back up the brain there is a lot of research and study being done in neuroscience and cognitive science and computer science about this including psychology and design and a number of different fields ethics is deeply

00:18:35 > involved in it so we don't have the hardware yet but if we look at slicing the brain and identifying those neurological systems the neural network and understanding the synapses of the dendrites and axons and neurons and every bit of information that goes on which is like a forest of complexity once we can copy that or transport then we can have the body prosthetics but not until then are you at all concerned that when you copy that you're going to find our consciousness isn't just in the brain I would I be surprised or alarmed exactly like like how certain are you that consciousness is in the brain because you just said we don't really know the definition of consciousness but you feel like it's in the brain my work tells me that there's a gut brain there's a heart brain there's probably some distributed nervous system intelligence and then there's thinking prefrontal cortex and there's a midbrain and there's probably some parts of the

00:19:36 > ring that you don't need if you don't have a body but like I would hesitate to say my consciousness is only in my brain because AI don't know consciousness is and B it looks like there's some stuff that happens outside the brain that has a effect like it's a big gamble for all the things we're saying I didn't say cautious is locating the brain let me let me go back inside again I talked about personhood and that the content content continuity of identity of the diachronic self is who we are moment to moment to moment so we need that continuity to form personhood so if that person who is based on our memories our emotions our perceptions our awareness there and all we know at this moment as those are located in certain areas of the brain that we can identify through watching neurological processes when you know someone's with heavy duty scanning you know really smart technology and also dying neurons and taking a look at the spikes and whatnot so we know that there's a lot of activity in the brain as an electrical circuit I also said we don't know what consciousness is but let's just say for the time being if we

00:20:38 > know that person who'd is located some where in the brain because of memory and perception and and thinking and cognitive abilities intelligence and creativity then that's what we've got so we need to back that up I also said I would I wanted to leave a door open or a window open that outside the brain there are elements in the universe in our surrounding that we cannot see here proceed because we have limited sensorial makeup work for example my dog can smell things I can't smell it's amazing or the cat can hear things I can't hear you know there is all sorts of a variety of really amazing senses other animals and insects have that we don't have so and we also know that we can't see all the light rays from the Sun we can only see a certain spectrum so there is a possibility that there's something around us that we can't see I agree with you in great detail about the the I recall it they get connective

00:21:39 > consciousness or the connectome around us no Sebastian siong talks about the connectome in the body the brain and the central nervous system and every part of us being connected well of course that's that makes sense we couldn't exist without that but if we look at the larger picture here on a more Gestalt platform we are all buzzing around together and I think that's one of the most interesting metaphors of the internet I mean as made us all will see that where you know these data systems communicating constantly with each other and sometimes a little bit two months too many tweets that we don't want to see or listen to yoga some people should just stop tweeting but yeah I agree with you that there's different levels of consciousness in fact there's a consciousness conference every year at Arizona University of Arizona and i'll be going to it next year so that's exciting but it's a topic that we could talk about forever and we'll find ways that we agree at ways that don't agree

00:22:40 > and a lot of it is driven by persons instincts by a person's value system morals and also religion political views so you know everyone has a somewhat different perception on it so it's a tough nut to crack what one of the concerns that I have is that there's a remarkably cool study looking at heart rate variability and when a person walks into a stall of a horse that's trained to ride the horses heart rate variability will within seconds change to match the heart rate variability of the writer without touch so this is probably in the e/m spectrum in fact that's what the guys who discovered this or theorizing and it's something that you can replicate and that's why people are afraid of horses generally get thrown off horses and people who are calm on a horse can write it now the horses wild boars it doesn't work what the process of taming the horse does that now if i put on my robot body i do

00:23:41 > with my my brain either uploaded or just my brain in it i wonder if we would lose that kind of connection and i also believe based on some other data quantified self style data around the idea that my heart rate variability will affect yours if we're in the same room together it's a subtle effect but it's a little bit spooky because i feel like there's a whole bunch of data we haven't gathered yet around human interaction on spectrums that are hard for us to see with our eyes or to detect with relatively primitive instruments so until we map out that interaction i'm hesitant to you know upgrade parts of my body and I I wonder if some of you know Cheney's great evil or is it Rumsfeld comes from the fact that you know he's got an artificial heart that doesn't even have a heartbeat you know it's a constant pump sort of thing I don't know but I feel like there's there's stuff going on in in here that affects what's going on up here and we've got data about the number of nerves going each way and all that so this is a slippery slope and I wouldn't want to do something that would make me a less human but I certainly would want to upgrade the systems my body to every

00:24:43 > extent they can and I want to see every spectrum of you know infrared and x-ray with my these eyes or some other eye and I'm happy to mount it here here so it's a very interesting future to imagine but I'm not sure that we have enough data about where we are today in order to map that feature out effectively do you have any thoughts on where research over the next 10 years and road for us to know more about the body in order to be able to upgrade it sure but I'd like to make it just a quick comment on what you were saying you know it's interesting when I lived in Telluride Colorado which is a Scooby's or at a thousand seven hundred fifty feet in the mountains surrounded on three sides by 14-foot mountains and lived there for many years and I had a different censorial perception that I had then I had when I moved to Los Angeles when I had left Telluride closed on my businesses and everything so I could work in the film industry in LA and it was very abrasive to my system that i felt i was in a river of metal

00:25:44 > and the constant sound of cars and metal was very unnerving to me so it was something I had to work on on a daily basis so it wouldn't affect my physiology so the environments we surround herself in do affect us that people we surround ourselves with to affect us if we're with people that are negative or hostile or trying to hurt you you will be pretty unhappy and uncomfortable if you have any level of perception or intuition likewise if you're around people who are joyous and enjoy your company and and and our very positive it'll you know we're off on you so it's always play tennis with so knows better than you um my father used to say now about horses animals i think that that there is something there about i'm getting in sync with other life forms i certainly feel that way about my my Gardens my roses and my plantings i feel that way about aesthetics in an environment very much um as far as design and color and

00:26:47 > shape and form and sound means a lot to me too I can walk in a room and pick up on a certain angular sharpness that makes me uncomfortable I'll walk out of the room and just leave because I don't think it's healthy so um and many people like that we're very sensitive we're very uh you know and maybe even a little bit too much to the environment even notice a thing so um by that what I'm saying is each person has a different physiology even though we're one species we all are different based on so many variables upbringing you know learning aptitude any any variable that even from early childhood too late a situation of a near-death experience or loss of the love our divorce or you know job career difficulty can affect us in so many different ways the issue about a whole body prosthetic is that we wouldn't want one in this time in linear time in the biosphere that didn't mirror biology as

00:27:50 > far as being in a nonlinear time space like up in a cybernetic system for example the cybersphere we would not need the same type of body that we would need in this environment we need a different set of sensorial capabilities so to exist in this biosphere that we're in and that this biological landscape a whole body prosthetic would necessarily need similar and advanced capabilities allergy or we simply would be extremely uncomfortable that is awesome thinking so yeah if we're going to go into space and live in a spaceship for ten generations you need a different body even amen to that I wouldn't want to be this back to meet at floating in space for a long time that's just bad news they probably bad for the space environment to these bits of humans every yuck oh well sir so let's zoom in

00:28:51 > from the far future which is a fascinating i love this and talk about some things that I know that listeners are are going to want to know being the Year transhumanist do you take supplements oh yes I do but I I'm not someone who downs them i don't i don't think it's healthy for the body just stuff supplements in your mouth mainly because it puts too much pressure on our digestive system I take the supplements that I believe I need vitamin D because I don't go out in the Sun anymore because I had skin cancer so I only run through the Sun so I need the vitamin D fish oil I think because when you're aging you lose collagen and elasticity in your skin and you are your nails become a riddle your hair becomes more course so that helps lubricate the body vitamin C is always good but I prefer it from the fruits rather than taking vitamin C I take hormone replacement therapy and i have since my late 40s i truly think it's one of the smartest thing women can do but i think it has to be bioidentical transdermal which means

00:29:52 > I transdermal on the skin estradiol you can have little testosterone and there are not but we've found out that testosterone can cause hair loss in women as well as men so you might want to steer clear of that testosterone it produces with the body produces a hormone on the scalp which causes hair damage footballs yeah exactly exactly thank you um and then I take um let's see what else I well that's about it basically I'm pretty much a purist in that sense I'm someone who likes to get out and hike and and you know do sports and be in the environment working in the garden and I'm pretty much a naturalist in that sense as far as intervening with aging of course cosmetic surgery is very important but not to do major facelift you know all this augmentation that that so many people do puffing up the lips and you know Madonna face you don't want to have this this rubbery plastic face I think wrinkles and lines are beautiful

00:30:53 > and you know just keep healthy that's the main thing whitening the teeth is really important that's one of the first signs of aging and so yeah be healthy and and teeth in fresh and smell good and all that kind of stuff but um as far as supplements I did when I was doing a lot of working at the gym with muscles i lost 10 pounds of muscle mass I believe or maybe eight pounds cuz I don't work out as hard as I used to I just it's too much effort but um I used to take some you know and never did not steroids but he's certain creighton to help with the AC T and building muscle I don't do that now but I do do the protein drinks before going to the gym and I still work out a lot and I have muscles but not to the level i used to i don't think it's so necessary there are some interesting studies that show for people over 30 creatine increases IQ do you do other things to increase your intelligence vs just takes up once and be healthy yes i do in fact that

00:31:54 > something i've devoted the past eight years to I've tried doing the crossword puzzles I'm lousy at them I watched um you know different TV shows like jeopardy and all that I'm not good at that either dancing is great because you're crossing over the body it's very good for helping increase the plasticity of the brain so dancing is fabulous yoga's fabulous um and what I truly support more than anything is going back to school learning a new skill um so I've pretty much worked in that area because you if you stay in your own field it doesn't really help I mean it you know it's it's like a padding it's almost like a placebo but if you go in an area that you have no cognitive skills in then you really are working those the plasticity and building new neural pathways so I think that's really important to do uh yeah um another thing as a humor I think you know comedians are really brilliant you know a good

00:32:56 > comedians so humor in it exactly metaphors symbols yeah yeah very you're very funny thank you I'd say that I'm just kidding Joe Rogan's become a friend who's a famous comedian he's he's an awesome guy who thinks really deep thoughts too and i agree with you actually comedians are incredibly valuable people who think about the world differently and I I'm happy to know to know a few of them now and and go wow these guys are super cool yeah yeah exactly now let's talk sleep so you know do androids dream it was the name of a science fiction novel i believe and now do you reduce your sleep because when you're sleeping you're not alive no I love sleep oh one of my favorite things is to have clean sheets I only use white sheets and white tails I love clean sheets and to climb in the bed and I feel so comfortable in those

00:33:58 > clean sheets and to go to sleep i love it i just love sleeping i love dreaming usually have good one sometimes i have strange dreams but usually they're they're quite good uh i don't i'm not someone wants to lengthen my life i say not getting myself out standing up but my creativity comes in waves I'm a morning person so I love getting up in the morning and getting work done but i'm also a night person so that's the that's the tension the struggle i constantly have to wrestle with um so how many hours of sleep per night do you normally get I'm pretty basic I get usual eight hours sleep eight hours very cool i I'm starting to ask that question of guests on the show I've done a lot of sleep hacking to improve the quality of my sleep so I can get the same amount of rest and recovery and less time because i feel like if i can free up three hours a day without incurring a biological or cognitive or creativity cost it's totally a good investment but it

00:34:59 > definitely you know there you can burn yourself out that way so it's always interesting to ask people with unusual minds like yours what their practice around sleep is so thank you for you take apps until you take naps not usually i I've gotten my brain to the state where I I can just go all day and and I feel good and I'm turned on and sometimes all you know I'll have meetings where I'm talking the entire meaning for eight or ten hours straight after landing in the morning and I can do it and I'm okay and so I believe there's a certain amount of Trinity the nervous system that comes and I've talked with soldiers who improve their sleep dramatically and sleep experts who talked about yeah you can train yourself to have efficient sleep so it's just interesting because it's a transhuman idea to be able to control and to select how much sleep you'd like to be able to get and to perform at the level you choose regardless of that and so it's really interesting to hear your take as seen one of the leaders in transhumanism and I like your answer perfectly well it's not a good or a bad thing to sleep more or less it's just you know how how much it ever makes you feel good and I love

00:36:01 > sleeping I not love my dog being in the room or even on the bed I need a blackout I black out curtains in the bedroom so important yes oh it's so important eyes at a sound super on the bed and I love the sound of rain it's just it's good calming for me and I prefer it if my husband goes to sleep at the same time I do but he likes to stay up and read so we've recently just moved a very comfortable chair in the bedroom for him so he can read in the bedroom cuz I feel more comfortable sick family in the room I wanna rip it in there and I sleep more soundly that is so interesting to hear the the perspective like your specific perspective on that I love it thank you wow that that's such a great Avenue for discussion because these are all you know you're a gardener you you know you connect well with your plants I you introduced me to your dog on skype before we set the recorder right so you've got this a very warm sort of human side to you yet some of

00:37:04 > what you talked about transhumanism is thought about at least but in some camps as being the polar opposite of that do you it's do you what do you say to someone who says this is evil like you're removing the humanity from humans and things like that because my take on you is you're not evil but you're curious and interesting and you're doing really good thinking so like like what's how can there be this dark side of what you're talking about in the light side what do you say to those people I first I try to be and pathak I try to understand what drives them to feel the way they do and its fundamentals we don't like change humans by and large don't like change we'd like to find her little niche and then you know put I like George Carlin said put all of our stuff and we like to have all of our stuff there and then this is my stuff and put our sign outside the door you know I'm this my religion this is my politics is my family this is who I am you know this how I like to have relationships this is my gender yet oh my facebook yeah yeah exactly like we liked exactly but in my in my world I'm a natural explorer I've

00:38:07 > always been challenging the edge I never felt comfortable with 11 set practice one rule on it and frankly I grew up in a time where you know there's a lot of misogyny and and I had three brothers and my parents you know and I love my parents and my mother is but when Mikey supporters my father passed away but growing up it was a man's world men went to university member the doctors the lawyers the creature and i remember at church one day at 18 i just got up and walked out I thought I never want a man telling me what to do again what my moral compass should be I need to know for myself if I'm a valued person and then I started noticing in universities male professors competing with me and I would win awards and it was just so uncomfortable and it made me realize that there's this this identity issue of not just gender but racism bigotry on this this type of world where you're

00:39:08 > supposed to be someone and that's who you are so I'm a very strong supporter of Human Rights multiplicity and diversity just from firsthand experience the lot of the issues to that make me in love the idea of human enhancement is when I was a teenager I spent considerable time helping children in need and and I worked in the hospital and also worked at an area called home for incurables where people were so physically deformed that they were not allowed in public if you can believe that it would it would be outlawed today but it was a place called the homefront curable and I would go do Christmas parties there and take take gifts and and it taught me early on that there's this broad spectrum of what a human is there are people with with massive deformities or mental illnesses and they still deserve to be understood in whatever way they can so I have a background in a broad background and a lot of

00:40:10 > experiences and then my own personal experiences of course you know you go through trials and tribulations in life um but when I talk to people may they come down and say it's happened to me many times especially in Europe you know what did your ethics and you young eugenics and you want to control the world and I just I listen and then I tried to say well how long do you want to live you know you do you want to have children they go yes would you want to see you children's children yes do you want to maybe have another career someday since you really love what do you love to do well I'd love to be an attorney or love to be a painter well what if you had time to do that before you know most people are a hundred and fifty years old and they're happy talking about what they'd love to do and if you talk to them about someone that they know that has a terrible disease or paralysis or an injury and you ask them if you could help them and give them a robotic arm or you know go in and engineer their body so that this cancer could come out would you do it and one on one people say yes so individually we all want to be loved and love and share

00:41:12 > life and find peace of mind you know it doesn't come easy but as a society in a group we become more bigoted and judgmental and I'm right you're wrong and and that's in politics and it's in religion and it's in lots of groups um so I that stands out to me and I try to understand it it's difficult but I do my best and I've had lots of years experience dealing with people when I'm on stage um you know getting angry at me and I've had to learn just to try it just listen and don't argue back just state my case and leave it at that I did have a TV show in LA for I think about seven years called trans century update on the future in the 1980s and I think I ended it in 1993 um and that was that that was great it got me elected to the green party I ran on green party ticket if you can believe it anti-technology I want election in Santa Monica um you know west LA I got the most votes and I

00:42:13 > lasted for a year my platform was we can use technology to solve some of the environmental problems and and we definitely can so but moving forward I just I try to listen and it gets annoying i have to tell you and it gets frustrating right I'll emphasize ethics I'll emphasize you know the I'll emphasize even the flaws I see in transhumanism and my own views and I still have people not even listening to a word I say go it's only for the rich or you know it's a selfish thing to do and what about overpopulation and and yet and I explain it over and over it so I think it just takes time and I think it's going to be more of a cultural shift frankly just like we see with quantified self I think it is the quintessential example of people just doing a transhumanist act and not even aware of it they're doing what is so fundamental to transhumanism self-responsibility being innovative and the developing an understanding of their

00:43:16 > lives no it's just pretty store ordering ordering your own lab tests because you can because you want the data not because you think you might be sick it's such a thing that most people have never done it I know for me that's I guess going on a 10-plus years I've been doing that and I can't imagine not doing it anymore than like changing the oil in my car but it is very much a mindset thing and you should in my opinion keep on doing what you're doing to get people thinking about this and where it leads because it's important and it'll go there anyway if we don't think about it we just won't like where it ends up yeah yeah we need to just keep on going and I think that there of course in every group there is the extremists who you know are a little bit forceful we see it with Republicans and Democrats that Christians the Jews the Muslims every group has and we see it with the postmodernists there's many postmodernists who are you know demonstrative about their postmodernist views and I always say what solutions do you have

00:44:17 > yes you can counter the Enlightenment modernism you can get mad at at universal natural truths you can get mad and all this stuff and help restructure it and I like that getting away with a strong scientism and universal norms I think that's been very bad for Humanity because it defies individuality and diversity but on the other hand when I say to post modernists what are you contributing how are you helping the situation we're facing right now with some of the issues with people not having enough clean water or housing or the wars for goodness sake and abuse to women there's no answers so I think transhumanism at least if it does anything good um besides being a proponent of life extension and healthy life for everyone is that to break through um people sitting on couches not doing anything transhumanist by and large are very proactive they're doers um so I think it's endemic just like quantified sulfur's they're doers I mean

00:45:18 > they're you know and the thing about quantified self that so fat is you don't have to be a technologist you don't have to be a program you can write it in pencil and it's okay and I love that I think that's a really generous of spirit we're running out of time on this so I'll hold up my book that was the question there's two questions for you number one is actually the last questions normally how do we learn more about you but hold up your book and give us a URL and this will be in our show notes as well so it did yes it's very readable it says the transhumanist reader classical and contemporary essays on the science technology and philosophy of the human future and what's your url mine is Natasha dot CC just dip WWE Tasha ccim building a new on network it's going to be the transhumanist knowledge and media center it'll be separate from humanity plus and all other organizations it's not going to be an organization it's going to be a network and Information Center and it's

00:46:21 > going to be a base in large part on the book because there is so many fabulous thinkers in this book it's an anthology it's not a novel so have all that work there all the ideas about transhumanism and life extension human and has that I'd love to have your work included on it because it's so important so I'm looking at becoming more of a knowledge base a library of knowledge and also a media center so anyone who has any questions about transhumanism human enhancement life extension etc can go there and what we want to do is connect people and make sure that people are connected at the level of their knowledge and experience and you know what the user was who can deliver for it if you want to speak in that language then that's a big mission that's exciting i'm i'd love to support it thank you i'd love for you to i think that you you certainly provide a creative intelligence level of comprehension about the future and the

00:47:24 > human as far as not just health and and physicality but also questioning and pondering and opening an avenue to not be judgmental to keep asking questions and that's what we all have to do so thank you oh you're you're very welcome and thank you for the compliment the final question and this is something that every guest has always answered is what are your top three recommendations for people this doesn't have to be from your trans human experience just your infamy entire life lived if someone wants to perform better kick more ass and live the ultimate life what are the three most important things they should focus on from your experience first be honest with yourself and know where are you excel and where you fall behind and everyone's different there is room enough for everyone so just figure out where you do well and where you don't

00:48:25 > and just accept that I don't have to elbow other people out there's plenty of room for everyone to have their own personality and and career and mission I think that's very important number two is surround yourself with people who meijer you and value you and give that back to them and number three is random acts of kindness and senseless acts of beauty I think is a way of life it certainly is it's kind of like paying it forward so those are my three recommendations thank you for sharing those Natasha of you tomorrow I really appreciate being on the show today it's been awesome talking with you and thanks for all the work you're doing thank you appreciate it and of course you know as we all know the key to getting better is dealing with your mistakes it's analyzing them seeing what went wrong so for example the feeling of stupid is really one of those things that sabotage

with students for years and sabotages people for a lot for life you know that's that's something that has no place in your in your personal worldview is the idea of stupid because that will really sabotage your progress