Herb Doctors Carbon Monoxide

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > ANDREW MURRAY: Welcome to this month’s

00:01:22 > Ask Your Herb Doctor. My name is Andrew Murray. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: My name is Sarah Johannesen Murray. ANDREW MURRAY: For those of you who perhaps have never listened to our show, they run every third Friday of the month from 7 till 8 PM. We’re both licensed medical herbalists who trained in England and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine. And we run a clinic in Garberville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions and we manufacture all our own certified organic herb extracts which are either grown on our CCOF- certified herb farm or which are sourced from other USA-certified organic suppliers. So you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91 .1 FM. And from 7:30 until the end of the show at 8 o’ clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s subject of carbon monoxide and other related entities surrounding the interactions of carbon monoxide. The number, if you live in the area, is 923-39 11. Or if you live outside the area, the toll-free number is 1-800-

00:02:24 > KMUD-RAD. We can also be reached toll-free on 1-888- WBM-HERB for further questions during normal business hours Monday through Friday. Once again, as is becoming very usual on the show, Dr. Raymond Peat is sharing his wisdom with us. And someone’s holding up a sign to – you want me to read that? SOUND ENGINEER: I can read it to you. ANDREW MURRAY: You go ahead. SOUND ENGINEER: The views and opinions expressed throughout the broadcast, they are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the station, its staff or underwriters. Time will be made available for other viewpoints. Thank you for joining us. And sorry for interrupting you. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Thank you for reading that, Michael. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, thank you for reading it. And so – where was I say? All right. Okay. So this month, very welcome to have Dr. Raymond Peat back on the show. And again, it astounds me where he has spent all of the years of his post-doctoral

00:03:26 > life researching. And this other subject tonight, carbon monoxide, is something that he said he was researching 30 years ago and started doing work towards a better understanding of carbon monoxide and its implications in toxicology and pathogenesis of disease 30 years ago. So, Dr. Raymond Peat, thanks for joining us again. RAY PEAT: There were a couple of topics that directed me towards carbon monoxide. I had previously been very interested in Otto Warburg's theory of cancer; and one of his experiments to study the respiratory enzyme involved poisoning that enzyme with carbon monoxide. So, I was aware that the most interesting enzyme of all happen to be specifically sensitive

00:04:28 > to carbon monoxide poisoning. And he found that light restored the activity of that enzyme. And that came back up in my intention when I was studying the toxic effects of the long Northern dark winters; lack of light exposure leading this enzyme susceptible to poisoning. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. I think without cutting you short, Dr. Peat, just the other thing that strikes me is that we get callers who listen for the first time of this show that goes out every month and I wouldn’t want anyone listening to be deprived of getting a little bit of background information from you. So I appreciate you launching straight into the topic, but would just give people an idea of your academic and professional background. RAY PEAT: I went from

00:05:30 > teaching linguistics and humanity subjects right into graduate school in biology, because I wanted to understand how the brain works when it does things such as making language, or art, and so on. So I was studying nerve biology at the beginning, and found that that was a very dogmatic area (I think at every university, but including the University of Oregon, where I started in graduate school in 1968). So within six months I had switched over to the other end of the organism, reproductive physiology and how aging affects that. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Because I think that’s another important point about this topic that I’d like you to expand on here, aging in the process of degeneration.

00:06:32 > Degeneration is, I think, probably becoming more of a heard topic on people's lips and in the papers and in magazines and in the popular press. And Alzheimer’s disease being one of those neurodegenerative diseases that we are hearing much more of nowadays. Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. And collectively that neurodegenerative collective of diseases, diseasethis is something that relates fairly intimately with carbon monoxide, doesn’t it, that there is many different processes that cause or have been shown to exacerbate the formation of Alzheimer’s in any given population. RAY PEAT: Yeah, they find that which can exacerbate them, isn't it? old brains in general have increased amounts of the enzyme that produces carbon monoxide in the tissues. Any tissue can produce it; but stress increases the amount of the enzyme.

00:07:34 > So the more stress there is, the more risk there is of poisoning itself. Not only increasing age increases the enzyme, but they find that schizophrenic brains have increased amounts of the enzyme making carbon monoxide. Alzheimer's brains [too]. And in Parkinson's brains, in the particular area affected by the Parkinson's disease, they see an increased amount of the enzyme. And in breaking down heme, which is his basic purpose, it releases iron as well as carbon monoxide. And deposits of iron are found in Parkinson's brain in that area.

00:08:36 > ANDREW MURRAY: The enzyme is called heme oxygenase, isn't it?AY PEAT Yeah. ANDREW MURRAY: And just give us a run ANDREW MURRAY: through of what that’s doing. RAY PEAT: It attaches oxygen atoms to the heme molecule (which is what carries oxygen in hemoglobin). And the heme molecule is what binds iron. And that, in turn, binds oxygen. But carbon monoxide is similar enough electrically to oxygen. It can outbind oxygen in the hemoglobin and displace it.SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So we can be exposed to carbon monoxide from external sources like burning fuel, but this is something that is also happening in our bodies due to an enzyme? RAY PEAT: Yeah. It's just the only way the body

00:09:38 > has to get rid of unused, or inappropriately released hemoglobin. Any time a tissue is injured and leaks blood, the hemoglobin is potentially very toxic in itself. So, to detoxify this hemoglobin which would act as an enzyme (just wildly consuming oxygen), the enzyme is there in every injured tissue that tends to bleed, or release heme, to destroy the heme and turn it into things that can be recycled: such as the iron atom and the carbons from the heme molecule.SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So this enzyme has a function in damaged tissue to help mop up the waste products. But in certain brain situations, as in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's,

00:10:40 > it's present in excessive amounts. RAY PEAT: Yeah, apparently because of chronic stress. And another brain situation in which they find it exactly associated with the problematic cells in the brain... multiple sclerosis; in the plaques, they find increased amounts of the enzyme making the carbon monoxide. About 20 years ago, I had gotten away from the “cancer-carbon monoxide“ connection for several years, because I couldn't find anyone willing to listen to the idea that it was such a neat idea to explain how the Warburg cancer theory works. But I came back to it in the 90’s, applying it to multiple sclerosis, because the

00:11:42 > symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning are very similar to those of multiple sclerosis. ANDREW MURRAY: Go ahead and describe them. RAY PEAT: Plaques tend to form in the brain, and every place there is a plaque, the blood vessels become leaky, and proteins leak out into the brain and are part of the inflammatory process. And the carbon monoxide activates those same processes. Tendency to clot; tendency of blood vessels to become leaky and let things inappropriately seep out. So that any time you have a situation of leaky blood vessels... Injured liver, for example, leaking its enzymes... inflamed muscles leaking enzymes and proteins... heart attack leaking its substances: you find

00:12:44 > heme oxygenase and carbon monoxide there, making the cells more permeable and leaky. ANDREW MURRAY: Is carbon monoxide produced by tumors, too?RAY PEAT: Yeah. And in transplanting a tumor into an animal, they found that it had many toxic effects on the animal. For years, they talked about a toxic hormone or a cancer hormone. In one set of experiments, they gave a chemical to the animal receiving the tumor implant, a chemical [that] would inhibit heme oxygenase and stop the formation of carbon monoxide; and it stopped the toxic effects of the transplant.

00:13:46 > SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Is that useful for a potential anti-cancer treatment?RAY PEAT: Yeah. There were several groups working on it. They can stop cancer growth like, for a week at a time, with an injection of one of the chemicals that just turns off heme oxygenase. And they are designing many chemicals that will do it; for example, reverse structure RNA molecules that interfere with the production of the enzyme very specifically.SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So then this would have possible applications with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's as well, if it is actually turning off that enzyme? RAY PEAT: Yeah, all of the degenerative stress-related diseases: cancer and the brain aging... SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Atherosclerosis...RAY PEAT: ... and arthritis involves excess carbon monoxide, RAY PEAT: too. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Let’s

00:14:48 > just go back for the benefit of listeners listening to this program I know perhaps don’t have the same kind of scientific background, so they can understand a little more about heme oxygenase. You mentioned that this enzyme, heme oxygenase is part of our body. And every cell has the ability to break down the products of hemoglobin into iron and carbon monoxide, and then there is a pigment called bilirubin. So this is happening. Our blood cells are turning over every 90 days, and the spleen mops up these blood cells constantly, breaking down the red blood cells into byproducts like the hemoglobin and carbon monoxide and bilirubin, 24/7. So this is the process that is happening in our bodies anyway. What's the mechanism behind by which were are protected from the carbon monoxide? RAY PEAT: Well, one design feature is having it all happen in

00:15:50 > the spleen: it keeps it away from your brain, and heart, and reproductive organs, and so on.ANDREW MURRAY: What about these people who had a spleenectomy (where it's been taken out, or ruptured, or damaged)? They don't have one? RAY PEAT: I don't know exactly what the consequences are; but you would think that it would expose the other tissues more to the effects of chronic stress. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: What about if someone has an enlarged spleen? Are they able to do that much better, or? Usually, enlarged spleens are indicating liver disease, or other problems. RAY PEAT: Yeah. I imagine that, as long as it's confined to the spleen... That's the main purpose of the organ; to keep it happening somewhere where the carbon monoxide has a chance to diffuse away in the blood stream, before it gets to the organs. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Diluted. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay.

00:16:52 > The main purpose of the talk and this discussion is that – we’ll get on that as well in a little while – is that propane, if it’s burnt incompletely and the byproducts of that incomplete combustion are carbon monoxide Environmental pollution from traffic exhaust is high in carbon monoxide. That's basically what we are looking at. Smoking is another good example of carbon monoxide exposure SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And even wood smoke too, right, Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: Yeah. A bad stove or fireplace can put out a huge amount of carbon monoxide. And even if you have a perfectly adjusted gas stove, if you put a cold pan down on the burner so that the flame touches it, cooling of the flame is going to make it release carbon monoxide ANDREW MURRAY: So tell me, you had a recent encounter or somebody – you were consulting with someone, and they were

00:17:54 > lucky enough to get their hands on a good carbon monoxide meter. Just talk about that a little. RAY PEAT: They were all having symptoms. And they noticed that they were worse in the winter when the house was tightly closed up. And they happened to have access to a very sensitive meter that would measure down to a few parts per million ppm. And they found that just 15 minutes of having the stove on, the burners were producing 18 ppm and the oven 29 ppm. no, 18 and 29. And it’s a matter of how long you keep breathing it. Because if it fluctuates, then you have a chance to breathe it out as well as breathe it in.In

00:18:56 > one particular experiment with rats they exposed the rats to the supposedly upper safe limit for human exposure in cities, 50 ppm. In just one hour of exposure the rats brains were structurally damaged. ANDREW MURRAY: So they were getting an infarct? RAY PEAT: No, much less. Just RAY PEAT: small cellular changes ANDREW MURRAY: Right. So it’s the ANDREW MURRAY: beginning of something worse. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: And that’s what you mentioned is the level in a lot of cities, right? SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: 50 ppm. RAY PEAT: Yeah. It it comes and goes. They saw permanent changes in prolonged exposure to even lower amounts in the animals, 30 ppm RAY PEAT: for example. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: So the average housewife who spends all their time cooking over a stove sorry, that’s not the average housewife – She could be exposed to a lot more than

00:19:58 > healthy levels ? Because gas stoves could be emitting a large quantity of carbon monoxide? RAY PEAT: Yeah. And the symptoms are very rarely associated with carbon monoxide poisoning because that's thought RAY PEAT: of as… ANDREW MURRAY: You traditionally think of the person who’s shut himself in a garage with a rubber pipe coming out of the ANDREW MURRAY: exhaust pipe into the garage, right… RAY PEAT: Yeah. And for many years, doctors thought only in terms of the blood being saturated with carbon monoxide and not being able to deliver oxygen to the tissues. But the carbon monoxide goes right into all of the tissues. And we‘ve got many, many enzymes that use heme. It isn't just the blood and myoglobin. But, for example, the enzymes that make steroids use the heme group. And so, the

00:21:00 > most intense symptom of getting your tissue saturated is you poison the energy producing enzyme. But very moderate amounts of chronic poisoning will shut down your ability to produce steroids, so that the testosterone level, for example, falls with chronic carbon monoxide poisoning . But interestingly, the adrenal cortical steroids are increased under the stimulation, because the adrenals are designed to recognize a stress emergency situation , which carbon monoxide is. But the actual enzymes that produce the bulk of steroids are blocked by carbon monoxide. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. You’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1

00:22:02 > FM. And from 7:30 until the end of the show at 8 o’ clock, you’re invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s topic of carbon monoxide. The number here, if you live in the area, is 923-3 911. Or if you live outside the area, 1-800-KMUD- RAD. Okay. So we’re joined by Dr. Raymond Peat and he’s explaining some of the mechanisms behind carbon monoxide poisoning and we’re discovering some of the sources of which, perhaps we probably haven't really considered that much. So I think the thing with stoves – the cook stoves – I always recognized the fact that a poorly adjusted flame is probably the main course of carbon monoxide emission from propane burning appliances. An or violet one, together with the presence of orangy type of flame instead of an blue soot deposits around the nozzle, is pretty diagnostic of incomplete

00:23:04 > combustion. But you are saying if you put a cold pan of water on a stove (actually on the burner) there is sufficient cooling there to cool the flame to the point where there would be incomplete combustion an carbon monoxide generated RAY PEAT: Yeah, and typically you see a little bit of the flame turning yellow where it hits the pan. ANDREW MURRAY: Right, exactly. Yeah, we’ve all ANDREW MURRAY: seen that. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Yeah, I’ve seen that. But the other point about this carbon monoxide emissions from propane stoves, is that people's houses are becoming more and more airtight. I know our house is very airtight. So it’s – maybe the older draftee houses, a little bit leaking out of your stove, that was diluted with plenty of wind. So do you think we’re going to see more Alzheimer's now, Dr. Peat, continue? ANDREW MURRAY: Well, we are seeing. It’s just whether or not it’s coming from propane stoves or not. RAY PEAT: The first symptoms are often so

00:24:06 > light people just think they have a chronic cold. Or sometimes, people get anxious or depressed. Some people have crawling sensations on their skin, muscle cramps, heart arrhythmia. Practically any symptom you can think of. It's a well-known sign of carbon monoxide poisoning, but it's just very rare for anyone to think of it when they have the symptoms. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: What about those gas-powered heaters you see in a lot of people's houses? ANDREW MURRAY: The space heaters. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Yeah, that are actually gas- powered heaters. I guess maybe they’re more popular in England than they are here. RAY PEAT: Yeah. A lot of people used to have them even without vents. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Or these ones in England, people have them in the house that don't have any vents. They just sit in the front room,

00:25:08 > SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: radiating heat. RAY PEAT: Yeah. The same as a gas cooking stove. ANDREW MURRAY: So another thing to cover is the government regulations concerning the presence of carbon monoxide detectors in houses now. I think probably for few years. They always – first thing it was smoke detectors and then it was carbon monoxide detectors. Describe briefly because I’ve seen the limits and the statutory regulations, government regulations and industry regulations that have set these limits, just describe them for us a ANDREW MURRAY: little bit, the... RAY PEAT: Years ago I bought one of the cheap meters and was testing it on various things. And nothing would register. So I put it into the garage with the car running, and left it for about half an hour. Still nothing happened. I learned that the industry and the government require that they not

00:26:10 > sound an alarm unless the concentration is reaching the life- threatening point. So, if it's a low level, below 50 ppm, one of the standards says that it has to stay at that concentration for 48 hours steadily before the alarm can sound. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So what would that do to your brain if you had 50 ppm steadily for 48 hours? RAY PEAT: I think they require the alarm to sound after 30 to 60 minutes, of a 50 ppm concentration. They‘ve got the charts published. It's definitely not a healthy concentration. But they don't want you bothering the fire department anytime you‘re just getting a burst of 70 ppm,

00:27:12 > because it won't kill you soon. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Or complaining to your range manufacturer. RAY PEAT: Yeah. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So what about this meter that you said is very, very sensitive. What's the name of this meter? RAY PEAT: I've seen it on the internet. I don't know the brand. One company that makes them is Kidde. ANDREW MURRAY: They manufacture smoke alarms, too RAY PEAT: I think it was their company that had one for 340 dollars, that actually registered down in ppm, which is RAY PEAT: exactly useful because...ANDREW MURRAY: Right and in ANDREW MURRAY: real time. RAY PEAT: Yeah. If you breathe out, a healthy person will make less than 1 ppm exhalation. If they are very sick and under stress, they might go up to 5 ppm, just from their internal production.

00:28:14 > ANDREW MURRAY: I know – I'm pretty sure we have a caller on the line. But let’s give it a couple of seconds here because it’s not 7:30 and I want to make sure that we can keep covering more material. The thing that struck earlier when I was looking at some of this was that smoking… exposes a smoker to about 500 ppm carbon monoxide from a cigarette.RAY PEAT: Yeah, in that little stream ANDREW MURRAY: So, let's try to be comparative here. In terms of incomplete combustion, from a propane stove. And you said 28 ppm for the oven, and 18 for the burners. RAY PEAT: If you had that concentration of a cigarette in your room air, you'd be dead pretty quick. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: At 500 ppm.RAY PEAT: Yeh. Because you are breathing quarts of air for every puff of smoke. ANDREW MURRAY: So it's very diluted. So what do you think the concentration in a quarter of a puff is?

00:29:16 > RAY PEAT: Probably 30, 40, or 50 ppm. Somewhere around that. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So if you are standing around your oven, it could be just a bad as smoking cigarettes? RAY PEAT: Definitely in some houses. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRA well adjusted.ANDREW MURRAY: Let's take this first caller. Hi, you ANDREW MURRAY: are on the air. CALLER: Hello. ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. CALLER: Can barely hear CALLER: you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Well… CALLER: I can hear you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, good. Go ANDREW MURRAY: ahead. CALLER: A question for Raymond Peat, probably a couple. I recall couple of years ago, he was talking about – he had something with thyroid and staying off clear oils and he was curing liver – people with liver problems, say, had cirrhosis or hepatitis or something. ANDREW MURRAY: That’s true. ANDREW MURRAY: What would your question? CALLER: What was it again? Something about thyroid and I’d like to know what

00:30:18 > to do to refurbish my mind – as to what his – what does he recommended as a liver cleanse. I recall that it was something with thyroid medicine, no clear oils, coconut and butter only. And no alcohol or something. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Dr. Peat, did you ANDREW MURRAY: catch that. RAY PEAT: Yeah. The thyroid is the essential thing for energizing the burning of any fuel. If your thyroid function is low, your liver is, in a way, the first organ to feel it, because the liver stores sugar. And if you are wasting energy, your liver fails to store sugar and becomes inefficient, eventually fibrotic, and so on. CALLER: People with thyroid – I knew a woman in

00:31:20 > New York, she went from really real slim to super fat. So she had her thyroid gland removed. [inaudible] didn’t help her at all. Anyway, I'm not overweight or anything, it’s just that I'm – I’ve hepatitis in the past. And I'm afraid I may – I used to drink for over 20 years all day long. So I'm wondering how I can – what is this thyroid medicine called? RAY PEAT: It’s – there are two main chemicals that are called the thyroid hormone. One is thyroxine (T4) and the other one it (T3). triiodothyronine The traditional product was just dried thyroid gland. CALLER: You actually take the gland itself? RAY PEAT: Yeah. People used to eat the whole animal.

00:32:26 > SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: In England you can still go to the butcher. They call them “sweetbreads“ and they are thymus and thyroid gland CALLER: What should I do here, RAY PEAT: The main dietary things that suppress the thyroid function are the polyunsaturated fatty acids. And that's why I've mentioned the importance of saturated fats, such as coconut oil and butter, and sugar as a way to make your own fat; to avoid the dietary oils, such as safflower, soy, corn oil and so on, which are anti-thyroid. CALLER: In other words, I don’t really necessarily – I'm sure my thyroid is probably functioning just fine. I have a sneaking suspicion.

00:33:28 > Dr. Ray Peat, are you the guy on the Internet I was trying to get a hold of and you look like you’ve been working out or something? CALLER: Is that you? RAY PEAT: No. CALLER: I’m like this could not be my guy. This does not sound like Ray Peat to me. But there’s another Ray. I spoke to you on the Internet several years ago and I can’t find you anymore on the Internet. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: His website is raypeat.com. So it’s all the liquid oils. So you remembered correctly everything, apart from it was liquid oils, not clear oils. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: So all liquid oils. CALLER: Yeah. Liquid oils. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Avoiding all liquid oils. Only do butter and coconut oil. CALLER: And then I have to lay off alcohol completely. Any kind of drugs, crap shit stuff. Pardon my language. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Adequate protein. SOUND ENGINEER: My policy is if you swear on the air, I take you off. So we have one more caller waiting now.

00:34:30 > ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. One more caller? You’re on the air. CALLER: Hi. I had a question about something Dr. Peat had brought up before. He was talking about hypothyroid and how can it be improved in like warm sunny weather. I'm wondering is that beneficial because it’s temporarily like masking the symptoms or if that has a long-term corrective effect on the thyroid. RAY PEAT: Just getting warm lowers the stress hormones. And so it gives your body a chance to recover. But if you haven't changed your diet that was causing the problem, then cold weather or other stress will tend to bring back the hypothyroidism. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: daylight hours make your cells less able to

00:35:32 > pick RAY PEAT: Yeah, the mitochondria, that I was talking about; the toxic effects of darkness. The thyroid is trying to keep those mitochondria functioning. And during the darkness, the various toxins, including carbon monoxide, interrupt the function of the mitochondrion. And that means it blocks the function of the thyroid. But if you increase your thyroid, you can compensate a little bit for that disruption during the darkness.In animal experiments, they found that removing a rat's thyroid gland, they would have to give four times as much supplement in the winter as in the summer, because of the increased stress of the dark days. When I tested it on myself, it was exactly four

00:36:34 > times requirement difference according to the season. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: you asked your doctor, they wouldn't recommend you increasing your thyroid medication four times in the winter months versus the summer. So, you have to follow your own symptoms. CALLER: So, it's almost as if the thyroid is being wasted on trying to help the mitochondria when they CALLER: Like, if you’re using similar amount, it’s just being wasted on trying to keep your energy up with these stresses. RAY PEAT: Yeah, it does spend more of the thyroid substance, and get it thrown off. But if you have you tissue well saturated with the safe nutrients, rather than the dangerous polyunsaturated oils, your mitochondria are much tougher.

00:37:36 > They‘ve found that you can remove the mitochondria from an animal that hasn't had those unsaturated fats, and mitochondria survive in a test tube much longer and are more vigorous. So it's the polyunsaturated fats that make the mitochondria so susceptible to injury. ANDREW MURRAY: because of the lipid membrane that the mitochondria is surrounded by, made up of saturated oils that don't oxidize like polyunsaturated ? RAY PEAT: Yeah, the very structure...You can extract all of the fat from a cell, and it still has the mitochondrial structure in shape, because it's mostly protein that gives the structure. And those proteins are tightly interacting with fats; and a lot of those are unsaturated. So, if

00:38:38 > you get too many unsaturated ones, they oxidize and damage the proteins. So it's the mixture of protein and fat. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Let's explain for our listeners who might not have heard of mitochondria: That's what we call the powerhouse of the cell; it's what produces energy. So, without mitochondria, you'd have no energy; you wouldn't be alive. It's actually the part of the cell that makes all your energy. And thyroid hormone helps bring oxygen to the cell and helps to activate the mitochondria. So it's all linked to having the cell function properly; thyroid and adequate oxygen, and the mitochondria producing the energy called ATP. RAY PEAT: And adequate light is part of it. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. All right. Thanks for that caller. That reminds me – we’ve got one more caller. But let me just ask you this, Dr. Peat. I know you mentioned Otto Warburg and his work in 1926 on cancer and defective

00:39:40 > respiratory enzymes. You said that when these animals had been poisoned with carbon monoxide the animals could recover completely if there was – and you’ve mentioned this many times before in context of radiation and other damaging substances, but these animals could be restored basically by having bright orange light, in this instance. Red worked too. But orange light shined on them, they could be reactivated, if you like. RAY PEAT: Yeah, Warburg was just using tissues isolated from animals; but Russians where the ones that used whole animals. They would give them a killing dose of gamma-rays; and if they very quickly within an hour flooded them with red light, it inactivated the effects of the radiation. So it wasn't the radiation itself

00:40:42 > causing the damage it was the cascade of chemical events that could be interrupted by the red light. And when you get sunburned, part of that cascade of events is the production of carbon monoxide. ANDREW MURRAY: next caller CALLER: Hello. I wanted to go back to the topic of polyunsaturated fats, and I wondered if they feed chickens (even organic ones) grains? Are we getting polyunsaturated fats

00:41:44 > RAY PEAT: Yea. Any animal that isn't a ruminant will express in its tissues pretty exactly the balance of fats in its food. And that includes people, and pigs, and chickens. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And ducks, SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: and geese, and turkeys. RAY PEAT: Yeah, but sheep, and cows, and camels, for example, will produce milk that has almost, about 98% of the bad fats have been destroyed by bacteria in their rumens. So, that it's 98% mono- unsaturated, or saturated, or the trans- fat variations conjugated linoleic acid, for example, which is actively being sold as an anticancer

00:42:46 > weight loss agent; but you find it naturally in butter RAY PEAT: and milk. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And also that does include elk, antelope, deer,... CALLER: All those animals have a fat that can gel at room temperature. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Yes, because they have more than one stomach to digest food and to convert the fat. CALLER: But when you see chickens, they have such soft, almost runny fat. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Because it's very polyunsaturated; because they are eating corn and soy meal. RAY PEAT: It's the same with pig fat. When my grandmother used it, it was a solid like butter. Even most researchers have been calling it a saturated fat now for 50 years. A couple of years ago, someone bothered to analyze it, and found that it was 30% PUFA. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: We had some friends who butchered a pig that was fed

00:43:48 > mostly apples and vegetables green waste from their farm, and they had a 70 pound pig, and 30 pound of it was fat and 40 pounds was meat. And it was all solid. CALLER: So that would be like good quality lard. RAY PEAT: way to make good eggs too. To feed them lots of vegetable matter. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Because the sugars will cause the animals to make saturated fats. So, if you feed your animals your excess food in the fall, which is what was happening with this pig, then they all tend to make saturated fat out of that sugar. CALLER: Thank you for your answers. Very interesting. Thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: You’re very welcome. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Thank you for your call. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. We have another caller on the air, so let’s take ANDREW MURRAY: this next one. CALLER: Hello. ANDREW MURRAY: Hi. You’re on the air. CALLER: People – can you hear me? ANDREW MURRAY: Yes. CALLER: People seem to be really skittish about butter.

00:44:50 > And I hear all the time people saying, oh, I mustn’t eat butter because I'm afraid of the cholesterol and it’s going to clog my arteries and give me a heart attack. And yet, you guys are always talking about how butter is good for you. So what’s it all that? ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat? We’ve gone through this several ANDREW MURRAY: times. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: That’s brainwashing. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, exactly. It’s just hard to overcome. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: They wanted to sell margarine. RAY PEAT: A researcher in India noticed that in his area where people eat a lot of butter, alcoholics didn't get hepatitis and cirrhosis. So he did a study with rats and fed them butter and lots of alcohol, and they didn't get hepatitis and cirrhosis. A group has been researching that now for about 25 years, showing that fish oil and unsaturated vegetable oil

00:45:52 > interact with a little bit of alcohol to activate iron, causing oxidative damage, liver inflammation, and fibrosis. But if you have practically an unsaturated fat- free diet, alcohol is really pretty harmless. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: And didn't they do that study in Chicago as well, 30 SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: years ago, you told me about? RAY PEAT: Yeah, Nanji is the name of the main researcher. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. You’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM. And from now until 8 o’ clock at the end of the show, you’re invited to call in with any questions related or unrelated to the month’s topic of carbon monoxide poisoning and its various ramifications. The number, if you live here, is 923- 3911. Or if you live outside the area, 1-800- KMUD-RAD. And we have Dr. Raymond

00:46:54 > Peat with us and he’s the person who is behind all the science. So if you would like to ask him any questions, now is the chance. We do have another caller on the air. So let’s get this next caller. Hi, you’re on the air. CALLER: Is it I CALLER: that’s on the air? ANDREW MURRAY: Yes, go ahead. CALLER: Hello. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, can you hear me? CALLER: I'm not hearing anyone. SOUND ENGINEER: You should be there. Are you there, caller? CALLER: Yes. SOUND ENGINEER: Yes, you’re on the air. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Hello, caller. Can you hear us? CALLER: Yes, I can now. Yes. I had a question. I’ve had quintuple bypass surgery. And I was introduced to a diet called Being Honest [?] diet. And in that diet, it claims that fat is good for you in limitations, that saturated fat itself is no good at all and that you should steer away from any saturated fat. So – and again, I realize

00:47:56 > you’ve addressed this numerous times. You just mentioned that with the last caller. But is there something – I'm just so confused at this point. The Being Honest diet from my understanding is basically a vegetarian diet, although it does call for the fat from fish to be added to that diet. But beyond that, it’s no meat, no dairy diet. ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat, what would you have to say? RAY PEAT: There is now a lot of stuff on the internet. Chris Masterjohn, for example, has some very good review articles dealing with topics like that. I’ve got a couple of articles on cholesterol on my website. ANDREW MURRAY: Caller,

00:48:58 > google Chris Masterjohn, and Dr. Raymond Peat's website is www.raypeat.com, and he has a lot of articles there that you can read that might explain ANDREW MURRAY: the confusion. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: He specifically said, he has got articles on cholesterol. Research has shown, that if you are eating the unsaturated fatty acids, those go rancid in your blood stream and damage your arteries. And then your body needs to stop that massive free radical reaction where it's consuming oxygen and going rancid; so your body puts a cholesterol bandage over the rancid oil. Japanese scientists have found that when they remove that cholesterol bandage, they find a plaque of oxidized omega-6 oils. There is lots of research showing that this is actually what causes damage to the arteries; and it's not at all the saturated fats,because saturated fats are very stable and would not create a free radical reaction like that.

00:50:00 > ANDREW MURRAY: Let's take the next caller. You are on the air. CALLER: Yeah. I'm calling back because when I asked about cholesterol, you talked about alcohol and liver. And what I want to know is about specifically butter. Is butter bad for your heart and your cholesterol CALLER: or not? ANDREW MURRAY: Not at all. ANDREW MURRAY: No. Not at all. CALLER: Other people are very afraid to eat butter because they think it’s going to clog your arteries. What’s the [inaudible]. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. Did you want to answer that, Dr. Peat? RAY PEAT: Yeah, the same things that applies to the liver applies exactly to the arteries, except the arteries are the first place that the unsaturated, oxidized fats will injure. CALLER: Why do people think that butter and animal fats will CALLER: clog your arteries?RAY PEAT: Because of 50 years of

00:51:02 > propaganda from the seed oil industry, basically. CALLER: So you are basically saying that unsaturated fats will clog your arteries quicker than CALLER: butter? RAY PEAT: Yeah. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Exactly. It's when the seed oil industry was unable to sell their oils to the paint companies because the paint companies started buying their oils from the petroleum industry, they needed to market their corn and soy oil to humans, because there was no other market for it. And that's when Mr. Mazola would drink a cup of corn oil and say, "It's great stuff! It lowers your cholesterol.". And he unfortunately died at a very young age of a heart attack. So, it causes such an arterial blockage... But, basically, they needed to sell their oils, and they boycotted all tropical oils palm oil, coconut oil, which will not cause heart attack and promoted corn oil. SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And there you have it. CALLER: What about olive oil? SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Olive oil is only 90% polyunsaturated and

00:52:04 > 90% mono-unsaturated. So it‘s not going to block your arteries, like the other liquid oils. But you don't want to use it in excessive amounts, because it is still 10% polyunsaturated. CALLER: So you are saying the butter is the healthiest? Or coconut oil ? SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: Butter, coconut, palm and saturated fats from animals like beef and lamb. ANDREW MURRAY: Thanks for your call. We have another caller on the air. Let's get this next one. CALLER: Yes, hi. CALLER: George from Kentucky. ANDREW MURRAY: Hey, George. Thanks for joining us from Kentucky. CALLER: My question is, is it truthful, I’ve been reading about black tourmaline or orgonite as being helpful or effective against EMF. And I was curious to know what you felt was helpful or protective in fighting against EMF2. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Those are like those beads that you can put SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: on the end of your cable. Is that what you’re talking about? ANDREW MURRAY: No. Black tourmaline is a stone. He’s not talking about the antenna blockers. No, that’s a

00:53:06 > different compound. That’s graphene. Not graphene. It’s graphite. CALLER: It’s a crystal. ANDREW MURRAY: Dr. Peat? CALLER: For a laptop, with the electromagnetic field, you get the harmful electromagnetic fields. So I was curious if you felt the crystals were effective in… SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Blocking that? CALLER: Blocking that, exactly. RAY PEAT: It takes something that is basically… covering the space between you and the source geometrically. Something that is a small area just can't catch a broad emission coming at you. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So they have something like Blocsocks for your cell phone. The side of your cell phone has an antenna that radiates to get its signal. If you put that Blocsock that has this metal barrier next to your body and the phone faces

00:54:08 > out, then it's not going to be penetrating you the same way as if you didn't have that Blocsock. CALLER: Just to reiterate. How exactly do you protect yourself from EMF of the laptop computer? RAY PEAT: Just think of it as light that‘s coming from your computer, or whatever. If the light is touching some important part of your body, the microwaves light are going to be following the line of sight. So you need something basically as big as the object emitting to catch the radiation. CALLER: So are you suggest to place the laptop on

00:55:10 > a table and not using it on top your lap. RAY PEAT: Yeah, the lap is not a good place to keep a radiant source. ANDREW MURRAY: Potentially, you could use an external keyboard and put the laptop underneath the table, or in a slot like that, block the EMF from the laptop, and then use a monitor also connected to your laptop. You could just use the laptop as the processor. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: And you can get a little EMF monitor and you can see on your laptop, it reads danger. ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah, it’s pretty bad. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: And six inches away, it doesn’t pick up any EMF. That’s a real crude monitor you can buy at the hardware store. But keep it as far away from your body as possible SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: basically. CALLER: Okay. All right, excellent. Thank you all. CALLER: I appreciate your help. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: Thank you for your call. ANDREW MURRAY: Appreciate your call. Okay, I don’t know if there’s anybody else waiting. Okay, we’re getting very close to the top of the hour, ANDREW MURRAY: anyway. RAY PEAT: We could make the connection between the connections about the unsaturated fat and

00:56:12 > the fact that fish oil happens to be one of the very best activators of the heme oxygenase, which makes carbon monoxide. And in proportions to how polyunsaturated the fats is, it activates the production ANDREW MURRAY: of carbon monoxide. SARAH JOHANNESON MURRAY: So if someone had Alzheimer's and they are taking fish oils, that's a really bad combination? RAY PEAT: Yes. ANDREW MURRAY: And it’s the kind of thing that I would imagine most of the industry is telling you it’s good for Alzheimer’s and good for chronic obstructive lung disease, and things like atrial fibrillation and other cardiovascular disorders. SOUND ENGINEER: We have one quick question about horse meat. Is that good or bad? RAY PEAT: It depends on what the horse is eating; but it will reflect exactly what the horse ate. So it's very likely to be fairly unsaturated.

00:57:14 > In some countries they feed them, for example, dates a major food in Iraq. And they would have a very saturated fat if they ate dates. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So let’s wrap the show up by giving people some of your contact details, Dr. Peat. Thanks so much for joining us again. RAY PEAT: Okay, thank you. ANDREW MURRAY: Okay. So Dr. Raymond Peat, he’s been working on many things surrounding what are becoming very current health topics. And the polyunsaturated oils are one of his mainstays. But he’s done lots of research into things that surrounding cancer treatment. So his website is ww w.raypeat.com. He has lots of articles there that you can go and browse. They’re all fully referenced. Some are quite difficult to get into because they’re very scientific, but there’s lots of information in there that most people will find the truth of behind. And

we can also be contacted Monday through Friday regular business hours. Our number will be 1-888- WBM-HERB. So, anytime , 9 through 5. We also have that website there where we can be contacted by email. So until the third Friday of next month, thank you for joining us. SARAH JOHANNESSEN MURRAY: My name is Sarah Murray. ANDREW MURRAY: My name is Andrew Murray.